Grand Prix 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix (990th GP) Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

I don't think they sabotaged his race, that would be an idiotic and assinine suggestion. What they did do was to make the wrong decision on timing. I beleive they should have brought him in when he could still rejoin in front of Verstappen, pitting him later would only work if the tyres switched on and gave him a 1.5 second per lap advantage.
the problem with pitting him earlier was that they that the tyres would not last and he would have to stop once again. During his second stint Leclerc was posting competitive lap times only for a few laps, that is the real issue here. Since he was more competitive with the yellows than he would have been with the reds it didn't make any sense to bring him in early.

we might argue that they should have been able to set up that car properly (for both drivers) but that is a different matter, last Sunday what Ferrari did was damage limitation, they tried to hedge their bets with 2 different strategies knowing that they didn't have the speed to challege the Mercs and that was the right thing to do. In the end Vettel finished the race where he started it and Leclerc gained several positions notwithstanding the fact that on his second stint he simply didn't have the pace of the leaders (thanks to a very long stint on the compound that actually worked for the Ferrari), to me it looks as if for once Ferrari gave Leclerc a decent strategy and that he should be grateful.

Leclerc compromised his race by hitting the wall on Saturday, these things can happen but it's not Ferrari's fault
 

Izumi

Banned
Burning question of the day is for me whether a 2019 season is effectively over as far as determination goes which team will win it all. I do not wish to sound like the proverbial old record player, but restrictiveness imposed by FiA in recent years not only increased cost, but prevented just about all teams but one to recover from what essentially was one flawed design after another. Track testing ...IMHO... is dearly missed. Not all data can be determined on dyno or simulators. If you doubt me, observe what automakers do. They also possess expensive and sophisticated simulators, yet when all is assembled, a test driver takes a car for the spin to find out how the car really feels in real conditions. F1 denies to teams the same. Teams do suffer today. Mercedes simply starts early on next year car development and game is over even before a season starts, while others plunge from one bad situation into another. I do not see way out of it until desperation settles in. As someone said long time ago, when everything else was tried and failed, then they will do what's needed (do right thing).
 
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Publius Cornelius Scipio We've seen how badly the no 2 drivers get treated at Ferrari over the years but so far Ferrar has managed to mess up each race for Le Clerc.
I think that this black legend of Ferrari screwing the strategy for their second drivers is frankly ludicrous, they screwed the strategy for their lead driver so many times that your argument looks to me to be totally indefensible, if you compare how many times they screwed the strategy to their second driver to the times when they screwed the strategy of their first driver you will come to a very similar number. Ferrari has been very weak in terms of strategy in the last few years, and the fact that they know that they have a car who is not as good as Mercedes can help explain why this is the case

And last Sunday they didn't screw Leclerc's race, sadly Leclerc screwed it on his own merit on the Saturday.

Regarding how Ferrari treat their drivers I would like to point out that when Ferrari issues team orders they are treated like the devil itlself, when Mercedes does so it's a matter of life. I think that this attitude in parts of the media explains a lot of the comments about how Ferrari ruined Leclerc's race in Baku, as if all drivers weren't supposed to use 2 different compounds. Sadly the compound rule still applies and sadly Leclerc had to do a stint with the red tyres. I have criticised Ferrari for their strategies in the past, actually I could say that I am probably one of their most outspoken critics on this forum, but last Sunday strategy was the least of Ferrari's problems
 
Burning question of the day is for me whether a 2019 season is effectively over as far as determination goes which team will win it all. I do not wish to sound like the proverbial old record player, but restrictiveness imposed by FiA in recent years not only increased cost, but prevented just about all teams but one to recover from what essentially was one flawed design after another. Track testing ...IMHO... is dearly missed. Not all data can be determined on dyno or simulators. If you doubt me, observe what automakers do. They also possess expensive and sophisticated simulators, yet when all is assembled, a test driver takes a car for the spin to find out how the car really feels in real conditions. F1 denies to teams the same. Teams do suffer today. Mercedes simply starts early on next year car development and game is over even before a season starts, while others plunge from one bad situation into another. I do not see way out of it until desperation settles in. As someone said long time ago, when everything else was tried and failed, then they will do what's needed (do right thing).
:cheer:
 

Angel

Race Winner
Contributor
Leclercs chances of winning this race were over on Saturday, he made a mistake, we all do it. Could he have won if he hadn't crashed on Saturday? We'll never know but given how Seb struggled behind the Mercedes and kept losing ground to them even in relatively clear air I doubt it somehow.

How Ferrari handle their two drivers in the coming races will be interesting. If they could get the car to show the potential it had in testing we'd have a really interesting battle going on here I reckon, four drivers all capable of wins and pushing one another to the limit. Sadly we have two teams where the drivers are pushing each other but only one team actually winning right now.
 

220

Test Driver
Track testing ...IMHO... is dearly missed.
Agree 100%
I cant see why something as simple as allocating additional test days based on the teams finishing position in the previous seasons championship couldn't be tried. Finish 1st get 1 additional day, last get 10.
No compulsion to use all the days allocated but teams would have a chance to test outside of race weekends.
 

Izumi

Banned
Increasingly races are used a testing bed in lieu of proper and timely pre-season 10000 km long testing (denotes early detection, diagnosis, and correction before season begins). Commercial owner has intrepidity to then sell this smoke and mirrors sham to all sheep on the outside as real "racing". Alonso, as much as I don't like that person, had at least guts a year or two back to admit on camera, that's exactly what McLaren was de facto doing. I've peddle this narrative for almost a decade now. RIP Mr. Whiting, but this was one of my several problems I had with you while you were in the office.
 

vintly

Mostly bacon
Premium Contributor
Ferrari will come good again, timed nicely for Lewis in 2021 when he'll join them on $100 million salary and get his 8th WDC.
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Publius Cornelius Scipio Ferrari and team orders are two things that are taboo. Its not been helped by the way Todt use to manage team orders in the Schumacher era even when it was the clear class of the field and they did not care what the fans thought


You say Mercedes are treated more leniently because they actually do allow their drivers to race..the only time they rightly got criticised was Abu Dhabi 2016 when they told Hamilton to hurry up even though they were going to be 1-2 in the championship but wanted a 1-2 out of the race. I thought Paddy Lowe was wrong to tell Hamilton to hurry up in the final race given it was the only he could make Nico Rosberg lose points by having both Verstappen and Vettel passing Rosberg .
 
Publius Cornelius Scipio Ferrari and team orders are two things that are taboo.

...

You say Mercedes are treated more leniently because they actually do allow their drivers to race..
Ferrari and team orders are not taboo, in fact we have been talking about for year. What seems to be taboo is Mercedes and team orders... and if that is not taboo certainly there is a very significant double standard at play because when Ferrari issued team orders we all blamed them, when Mercedes issued team orders it was all part of the game

I don't say that Mercedes are trated more leniently because their allow their drivers to race, they have allowed their drivers to race so far this year, I didn't get that impression last year. Mercedes are treated more leniently by parts of the media and by parts of the fans because they are Ferrari's opponents ;) I think that Ruslan correctly described how people react to Ferrari on a post in this discussion the other day
 

vintly

Mostly bacon
Premium Contributor
Where’s the bragging and rubbing salt Izumi ? They detail what they did, probably after being asked about it. It’s not like Mercedes have held a press conference to talk about their exploits is it?
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Publius Cornelius Scipio The Schumacher years of team orders and Alonso - Hockenheim in some way paints what people think of Ferrari - break the rules and basically get nothing but a slap on the wrist. Which is why every time there is team orders at Ferrari - it is met with consternation ( for a moment I was going to spell constipation:oops:)
 
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Il_leone

Champion Elect
Izumi Now Vettel is saying Mercedes domination is boring ... a bit rich coming from a guy who had the fastest car during his 4 of his 6 years at Red Bull :whistle:
 

Il_leone

Champion Elect
Bottas and Hamilton have not come to blows yet but that would be good news for Vettel if Mercedes were to implode.

siffert_fan That one point Bottas got for fastest lap which puts him ahead in the championship. He was told not to go for it and his end message at Melbourne "Eff you" I wonder if that was aimed at Toto who expressed he does not like seeing fastest lap being done in the risk of blowing up an engine

Watch this with intrigue as Hamilton said he won;t be as soft next time
 
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