Things ... 2015 - 2016 Silly Season. The Drivers Market.
Webber got a top drive despite being taller. And less talented.
soccerman17
Race Winner
Justin Wilson has 4 inches on both of those guys. Much less talented. Didn't get a top drive.
Anyways thanks Dash Racing those point systems are pretty messed up in some ways. Formula Two doesn't even exist, and Formula 3 gets more points than Formula Renault 3.5 and as many as IndyCar? GP2, FR3.5, and IndyCar should all be equal on the top step in my opinion. Maybe with WEC there too.
Anyways thanks Dash Racing those point systems are pretty messed up in some ways. Formula Two doesn't even exist, and Formula 3 gets more points than Formula Renault 3.5 and as many as IndyCar? GP2, FR3.5, and IndyCar should all be equal on the top step in my opinion. Maybe with WEC there too.
Justin Wilson thrashed Webber in F3000, Webber got into F1 quicker by knowing Minardi boss Stoddart.
Il_leone
World Champion
soccerman17 Was not aware that A Rossi and Gutierrez have a loathing relationship but I think Ferrari will make Haas pick one of those guys seeing it appeals to US and Mexicans
I still think Haas will want an experienced proven driver in F1 and apparently Hulkenberg might get it in order to prove he is worth the Ferrari drive
I still think Haas will want an experienced proven driver in F1 and apparently Hulkenberg might get it in order to prove he is worth the Ferrari drive
Spinodontosaurus
Points Scorer
This is true of the 2001 F3000 season, but Webber did have 5 DNF's that season to Wilson's 1. As a thought experiment I tried only counting points scored in races that both of them finished which resulted in them tying in points, although Wilson's mean finishing position was slightly higher (2.7 vs. 3.5). On the other hand all of Webber's DNF's were accident-related, but as I don't have the footage at hand I don't know whether any of them were his fault (4 of them were first lap multi-car accidents).
It was also Wilson's third season in F3000; Webber was only in his second season. It was Webber's 8th season of car racing and at least the 7th season for Wilson, possibly more. Wilson's first two F3000 seasons were rather mixed; 20th in his debut season (1999) was terrible, and 5th in his second season still isn't hugely impressive. Webber finished 3rd in his debut season (2000) ahead of Wilson and a very inexperienced rookie named Fernando Alonso, then followed it up with 2nd the next season.
I don't put much weight onto junior results that are achieved multiple seasons into a given category, so Webber's results in F3000 impress me a little more than Wilson's, although they were both very experienced making both their results unimpressive. Their pre-F3000 results seem broadly similar, being decent but unspectacular in entry-level series (Formula Ford for Webber, Formula Vauxhall for Wilson), with Webber also taking a 4th on debut in F3 and Wilson winning Formula Palmer Audi on debut.
Knowing Stoddart undoubtedly helped Webber into F1 though; he wasn't getting anywhere near a seat purely on merit.
F1Brits_90
World Champion
Interesting news apparently about Gene Haas as I was reading the f1 gossip on BBC sport has been talking about who tops his shortlist for Haas F1 ahead of the team's debut campaign in 2016. & they are Jean Eric Vergne, Esteban Gutierrez and surprisingly Nico Hulkenberg I would say Gutierrez is front runner to satisfy Ferrari & Bring the Mexican cash then rossi or another American/indycar driver to help satisfy Americans
Haas reveals driver shortlist
Haas reveals driver shortlist
JEV is a Ferrari reserve, and currently represents an American team in Formula E. I reckon Ferrari would rather run Vergne than Gutierrez, since he has more than one points finish in F1!
F1Brits_90
World Champion
Agree might be a shame for jenson but I would be amazed if vandoorne isnt in a mclaren/f1 seat next season after such dominant display where I think he's realistically won GP2 title by British round with 80pt lead. After the last few yrs of valsechhi leimer & palmer where it tutning more into a dead end than a progression it might kill GP2
Spinodontosaurus
Points Scorer
^The problem with GP2 is that it favours experience over talent, albeit not deliberately. It's why there has been a string of underwhelming (relative) nobodies sitting around in the sport for 4-5 years before finally figuring out how to drive the cars, and then going on to win the title. The reason drier like Leimer and Valsechhi got nowhere near a drive despite winning GP2 is because nobody cares about it if it takes them that long to get the job done, unless they have a ridiculous amount of sponsorship like Maldonado did.
Palmer finished 28th and 11th overall in his first two GP2 seasons.
Leimer finished 19th and 14th.
Valsechhi finished 15th and 17th.
Maldonado finished 11th and 5th.
Then occasionally you get drivers like Vandoorne who rock up and finished 2nd in his debut season despite the series being clogged up with the aforementioned repeat pay-drivers. He looks like something pretty special at this stage.
Palmer finished 28th and 11th overall in his first two GP2 seasons.
Leimer finished 19th and 14th.
Valsechhi finished 15th and 17th.
Maldonado finished 11th and 5th.
Then occasionally you get drivers like Vandoorne who rock up and finished 2nd in his debut season despite the series being clogged up with the aforementioned repeat pay-drivers. He looks like something pretty special at this stage.
They must of all been told to look miserable. Yet the best Smiler could do was a smirk. 
Those stats make you realise how much Massa has raised his game this year...and what a total fucking waste of space Pastor is.
soccerman17
Race Winner
Are you sure that's not just Grosjean being good? Hahaha who am I joking its obviously Pastor being a total fucking waste of space.
Spinodontosaurus
Points Scorer
I don't like how Sky compiled those stats. For example, there has only been two races where both McLaren drivers finished - China and Hungary - and Alonso was ahead in both. If you expand the sample to only exclude races that both started but neither suffered a mechanical DNF then Silverstone rather unfairly counts as another loss for Button, making it 3 - 0 to Alonso.
However, because they have simply taken their respective classified finishing positions in the races and based the stats solely on that, Button is listed as 5 - 3 up on Alonso. Which is just silliness, never mind the fact that when Alonso DNF'd he was ahead of Button on track on all but 1 occasion; Monaco.
They've also failed to ignore qualifying sessions where one driver was unable to set a representative time. By my eye if you do that then the qualifying tally is 4 - 2 to Alonso (Button ahead in China/Malaysia, Alonso in Spain, Austria, Britain and Hungary).
These problems apply to every pairing, although the McLaren drivers are affected worst by it. So I modified it:
I disagree that Massa has raised his game this year. Last year the two were also very close, but Massa's abnormal amount of bad luck prevented him from showing it. It was 11 - 6 to Bottas in qualifying last year and 10 - 8 in races. However, after altering the results to correct for Massa's luck (or lack thereof) it ends up as 11 - 8 to Massa in races instead.
Even without correcting for the bad luck overall it is 14 - 12 to Bottas in Qualifying and 15 - 12 in races. If you 'fix' last years results as above then the overall race tally stands at 15 - 13 to Massa.
Either way those two are incredibly closely matched, so it's safe to say I don't buy the hype around Bottas. At all. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Massa's and think he is frequently underrated, but if Bottas was the next big thing as some seem to think then we would expect him to easily beat Massa. Currently we would have to conclude that Bottas, Massa and Raikkonen are roughly equal to one another, so quite why Ferrari want Bottas I don't know.
I'm even less impressed with Hulkenberg though. I mean, his qualifying pace is very impressive (20 - 9 advantage overall vs. Perez), but a 13 - 11 advantage in races is less impressive. Kobayashi beat Perez 16 - 13, Button beat him 11 - 5.
However, because they have simply taken their respective classified finishing positions in the races and based the stats solely on that, Button is listed as 5 - 3 up on Alonso. Which is just silliness, never mind the fact that when Alonso DNF'd he was ahead of Button on track on all but 1 occasion; Monaco.
They've also failed to ignore qualifying sessions where one driver was unable to set a representative time. By my eye if you do that then the qualifying tally is 4 - 2 to Alonso (Button ahead in China/Malaysia, Alonso in Spain, Austria, Britain and Hungary).
These problems apply to every pairing, although the McLaren drivers are affected worst by it. So I modified it:
I disagree that Massa has raised his game this year. Last year the two were also very close, but Massa's abnormal amount of bad luck prevented him from showing it. It was 11 - 6 to Bottas in qualifying last year and 10 - 8 in races. However, after altering the results to correct for Massa's luck (or lack thereof) it ends up as 11 - 8 to Massa in races instead.
Even without correcting for the bad luck overall it is 14 - 12 to Bottas in Qualifying and 15 - 12 in races. If you 'fix' last years results as above then the overall race tally stands at 15 - 13 to Massa.
Either way those two are incredibly closely matched, so it's safe to say I don't buy the hype around Bottas. At all. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Massa's and think he is frequently underrated, but if Bottas was the next big thing as some seem to think then we would expect him to easily beat Massa. Currently we would have to conclude that Bottas, Massa and Raikkonen are roughly equal to one another, so quite why Ferrari want Bottas I don't know.
I'm even less impressed with Hulkenberg though. I mean, his qualifying pace is very impressive (20 - 9 advantage overall vs. Perez), but a 13 - 11 advantage in races is less impressive. Kobayashi beat Perez 16 - 13, Button beat him 11 - 5.
The adjusted stats don't make Max Verstappen look too good either
Spinodontosaurus you should apply for a job in government with that finesse for manipulating stats. 
I think Button might have the edge on Alonso for quali, or they are very closely matched. Often enough they end up with a technical problem during quali and we cannot really see who's the faster driver for Q. For example; in Hungary, Button was a tenth and something slower than Alonso. But, he had issue with ERS deployment, so one would think he might have done a better time than Alonso, and then who knows what would have happened in the next part. Though, Alonso would have been out with Q1 in that case.
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