Grand Prix 2013 Malaysian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The first race of the season has just finished and what a race it was. Exciting from start to finish. Nice battles. Three World Champions on the podium. And the good thing is, there is another Grand Prix in just seven days time in Malaysia!

Having won in Melbourne, Kimi Räikkönen will go into the 2013 Malaysian Grand Prix leading the World Driver's Championship. His Lotus car looked as though it was treating the new Pirelli tyres better than any other car/driver-combination, managing to win the race with only two stops. Can they keep this good initial form up?

Red Bulls pace didn't look too frightening in Melbourne. Mark Webbers race was ruined by his (usual) bad start, which apparently was caused by a software issue. Sebastian Vettel finished third. Let's see if they'll be able to fight for the win in Malaysia, where temperatures should be significantly higher than in Australia.

McLaren had a poor race (as expected). Jenson Button just finishing within the points. Sergio Perez' terrible qualifying led to him finishing just outside the points. Jenson sounded pretty pessimistic after the race about short term improvements. So we shouldn't expect a strong performance from them in Malaysia. But one never knows.

Mercedes had a pretty good start to the 2013 F1 season. Even though Nico Rosberg retired in the middle of the race, Lewis Hamilton was able to qualify third and finish fifth, which in his own words was more than expected. He seemed very upbeat about the car's performance, so there is probably more to b e expected from them. Considering McLaren's early form, his switch to Mercedes seems to have worked out.

Ferrari had a very strong race, leading the constructor's championship after Fernando Alonso finished second and Felipe Massa finished fourth. Alonso was strong as usual, but it was Felipe Massa who looked really impressive. After outqualifying his teammate, he was able to keep Alonso behind him for the first part of the race only losing the battle against Alonso due to a poor pit stop strategy. They're in for a pretty strong season.

In the midfield battle it was Force India who looked mightily impressive with Adrain Sutil leading the race twice and finishing seventh after his last stint was compromised by the quickly deterioating super soft tyres. Let's see if they can keep up their good form in Malaysia.
Sauber only started the race with one car as Nico Hülkenberg was unable to start due to a fuel pump problem. Esteban Gutierrez looked rather anonymous during the race. They'll be hoping for a more competetive outing in the next race.
Williams didn't look too strong with Pastor Maldonado calling the car "undriveable" and retiring after beaching his car in turn one. Rookie Valtteri Bottas finished 14th not living up to the high expectations people put on him. Let's see, if they will be able to make short term improvements for the Malaysian Grand Prix.
Toro Rosso looked strong during Free Practice and parts of qualifying but only managed to finish 9th with Jean Eric Vergne. Daniel Riccardo, who told media before the race that he will have to "blow Vergne away" in order to get a shot at the Red Bull seat for 2014, retired from the race.

In the battle of the "new teams" it was Marussia who looked to have the upper hand over Caterham, with Jules Bianchi appearing to be strongest of the four backmarkers.

Can Kimi Räikkönen make it two out of two? Are McLaren going to be as poor as in Malaysia? Will Nico Rosberg come back strongly after his retirement? And most imprortantly: What about the weather?

Discuss!
 
Sebastian Vettel said:
"It doesn't look very nice I would say. I hope we have enough tyres to survive the race.
Today tyre wear was pretty severe for everyone, so obviously you go around way under the potential of the car.
It is not a lot of fun and that is how it is."

Mark Webber:
"The whole category is geared around tyres at the moment.
Everything is around tyres. Tyres, tyres, tyre, tyres, tyres..."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106233

Excuse me for believing this is not how F1 should be. :(
 
Oh please Mark! All about tyres? Really? Go and drive for Marussia then, they treat their tyres quite well and they aren't winning the race. Clearly something beyond tyres also plays a part in the overall performance of the car; perhaps aerodynamics, and bucket loads of cash.

The rules are the same for EVERYONE, and just because other teams are performing better than you in a component of the format that you haven't perfected (yet) does not make it unfair or unreasonable. If tyres are playing as large a role as you imply then Red Bull should have spent more time developing a car that manages its tyres.

By bitching about the tyres Vettel and Webber are effectively admitting that Red Bull have not designed their car optimally relative to the regulations as they stand at present. Lotus, Ferrari, Force India and Mercedes to an extent have all designed their cars with tyre preservation in mind, so I have no sympathy whatsoever for those who cry foul when things don't go their way.

Tyres management may seem a bit like a lottery to those that don't understand how, but if the same cars as last week are at the front again, then this clearly is not the case. MAKE YOUR OWN LUCK.

Rant over.
 
snowy - I don't think the whole category is geared around tyres at every circuit.

You won't see people moaning about tyres at Monza, for example, and there are various other circuits with low degradation. Malaysia has seen the most tyre wear since Pirelli came into F1.

Webber having a whinge is nothing new either.
 
Reminds me of Lewis, Schumacher, et al last year b!tching about how he can't go fast all the time because of the tyres (tyres tyres tyres)... and maybe the year before that as well...

Same record...different year...

...
...
and on Monday we read about the RBR 1 2 done with one less stop than everyone else... :whistle:
 
This is probably only marginally the place for this comment since somewhere there is a thread where tyres and their over-riding (excuse the pun) influence on the racing is discussed ad infinitum. However, I would like to support Vettel's, Webber's and Snowy's points with this ...

... millions of person hours, millions of tons of resources and millions in whatever currency you care to name are poured into creating a grid full of the most high tech cars on the planet. Yet, when it comes to using them they are ultimately subservient to one component (x4), the tyre. Thanks to the sport's decision to restrict the number of tyres and restrict the durability of said component to artificially "improve the show" all that amazing tech in the cars and ultimate performance of the drivers is now secondary to "tyre management".

Obviously there is a skill in driving slowly "as quickly" as possible but I want to see racing. I want to know that when I'm watching a GP the fastest blokes are the fastest blokes, I don't want to find out later that the fastest blokes have been pootling around conserving rubber because the tyre company has been told to make their tyres with less grip than they could have and wear out faster than necessary. I know that's what Snowy is getting at . I suspect the Seb and Mark's comments reflect the drivers are slowly but surely getting fed up with having beasts at their command but are not fully allowed to let them off the leash.

Imagine Hussain Bolt having to run wearing a trainer with a sole designed to wear out if he accelerates, corners or simply runs too fast or too often. It's farcical. Come Sunday, unless teams spend the rest of practice and most of qualifying sat in the garage everyone out there will be on tired (as on :sleeping:) boots that won't last the distance.

Stand by for one-off reg's relaxation and emergency shipment of wets and inters to Sepang:thinking:
 
Unless these high tech companies and (supposedly) fastest drivers in the world build the cars and drive them in the best way to maximise tyre life and speed? The fact that the engineers haven't built a car which works with the tyres is not Pirelli's fault is it?
 
Screen Shot 2013-03-22 at 12.06.48.webp
 
I'm not saying it's Pirelli's fault. They are doing precisely what they have been asked to do which is to supply a sub-optimal component and to only supply a strictly controlled quantity. Maybe I'm a country mile wide of the mark but I think it's those constraints that are the problem that's annoying people. It annoys the >:( out of me.:D

Re: FB post
 
Different remit.

Engineers are told to build fast cars with fast engines in the spirit of the sport.

Pirelli are told to build fragile, short lasting tyres to enhance the spectacle.

The engineers are usually two years ahead of the season; when does Pirelli start tinkering with their compounds? - a lot later I suspect, so how will the two ever meet to produce a car and tyre combo that will truly thrill and, more importantly, show each component to its best advantage.
 
Interesting comment I heard during our race coverage last weekend... Mercedes have the chief "tyre guy" formerly of Lotus Renault F1... they are rowing those Silver Arrows in the right direction...
 
This is probably only marginally the place for this comment since somewhere there is a thread where tyres and their over-riding (excuse the pun) influence on the racing is discussed ad infinitum. However, I would like to support Vettel's, Webber's and Snowy's points with this ...

... millions of person hours, millions of tons of resources and millions in whatever currency you care to name are poured into creating a grid full of the most high tech cars on the planet. Yet, when it comes to using them they are ultimately subservient to one component (x4), the tyre. Thanks to the sport's decision to restrict the number of tyres and restrict the durability of said component to artificially "improve the show" all that amazing tech in the cars and ultimate performance of the drivers is now secondary to "tyre management".

Obviously there is a skill in driving slowly "as quickly" as possible but I want to see racing. I want to know that when I'm watching a GP the fastest blokes are the fastest blokes, I don't want to find out later that the fastest blokes have been pootling around conserving rubber because the tyre company has been told to make their tyres with less grip than they could have and wear out faster than necessary. I know that's what Snowy is getting at . I suspect the Seb and Mark's comments reflect the drivers are slowly but surely getting fed up with having beasts at their command but are not fully allowed to let them off the leash.

Imagine Hussain Bolt having to run wearing a trainer with a sole designed to wear out if he accelerates, corners or simply runs too fast or too often. It's farcical. Come Sunday, unless teams spend the rest of practice and most of qualifying sat in the garage everyone out there will be on tired (as on :sleeping:) boots that won't last the distance.

Stand by for one-off reg's relaxation and emergency shipment of wets and inters to Sepang:thinking:

This perspective is shared by many people, and I am not criticizing it. But you have provided ammunition against your own argument. If millions of person hours and millions of tons of resources and millions in currency are poured into creating a grid full of high tech cars that FAIL TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT DESIGN PARAMETERS such as TYRES THAT DEGRADE, then aforementioned person hours, resources and currency have been WASTED by design stupidity and you would have been better off not spending them, or spending them in more useful ways.

No-one can tell me that the teams were not aware of Pirelli's mandate prior to the commencement of the season. They were forewarned, and if they had chosen to heed the warning they would have been forearmed. After what we saw last year it would have been idiotic to not conclude that tyre management was going to play a large component of the development of this years cars, particularly as every other component of the regulations are so well advanced (aerodynamics etc..) and others have been completely frozen (such as engines). Producing differentiable performance is literally only possible through tyre management because every other variable has been taken off the table.

This being the case, Red Bull's issues are really of no interest to me. Got a problem with tyre management Mark? Fix it. F1 teams are prototype factories; they can rapidly adapt as and where necessary. You made a mistake by underestimating wear rates, too bloody bad mate.

And one more thing. When have we ever known that "the fastest blokes are the fastest blokes"? If that's what you're looking for go and watch Nascar or some other completely regimented formula. Formula 1 has been, and still is, a formula set-up for innovating within a fixed set of parameters, the parameters changing from year to year to reflect different mandates. This year, and last year, the mandate has been tyre management. Yes, it is artificial, but is it any more artificial than having no tyre stops, no refuelling etc...

Lastly, I remember a time when F1 was a 'constant sprint' with tyres of virtually unlimited wear, as so many of the dedicated fans seem to be pining for. As a spectacle for most television viewers it sucked balls big time. Formula 1 is a business and they will pursue entertainment value as it is measured by the entire audience, not by us hard-core fans.

As it stands now, F1 is no longer the equivalent of the 100 metre sprint, rather it is the 400 metres or the mile. And you don't win those races running like Usain Bolt.
 
Of course the teams are fully aware of the reg's and design parameters they have to work to. It's a shame that you don't know or have misunderstood where I'm coming from because your response makes interesting reading. Anyway, I'm not going to repeat (or rephrase) myself as you will come across my posts elsewhere and in time you will, I suspect, understand my stuff a little better.
 
I don't think the issue is that different teams have built a car to suit the tyres to different extents, it's the fact that tyre wear is a primary concern in the first place. Even drivers in cars with very good tyre wear have to drive to target lap times rather than pushing to the limit.

Many of us would prefer it if that was not the case, with drivers on the ragged edge all the time. Like what happened at Austin, for example.
 
Raikkonen&Redbull=PartyTime If I understand Fenderman correctly, I don't think it's about whether the teams are suitably taking account of tyre performance in their designs, but more about whether deliberately making tyres such a dominant limiter of a car's performance in the first place is a clever thing to do for the sport.
Do we want the teams to show us how well they can conserve tyres that have been constructed with the express purpose of degrading too quickly (where to next? Do they make the brake discs more fragile so the teams have to 'manage' brake wear?), or do we want to see Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen et al racing each other?

If that's what Fenderman means, then I'm with him all the way.
 
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