Grand Prix 2012 Chinese Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Racking up the air miles now

Going into the third race of the 2012 season and it is still unclear where everyone lies in true race pace over a normal dry race without the intervention of a safety car apart from that McLaren have done the best job of the teams with Red Bull and Mercedes not too far apart but Mercedes seem to be struggling with higher levels of tyre degradation compared to the other front runners.

Despite all the highly publicised problems at Ferrari, Fernando Alonso currently leads the Championship after a 5th place in Australia and an against the odds victory in Malaysia where the rain early on managed to put Alonso in the lead when the others struggled. However this doesn't mean things are rosy in Maranello as when the track dried up Alonso started to fall back and was being hunted down by none other than Sergio Perez in the Sauber who was closing in rapidly on the Spaniard only to make a minor mistake with a couple of laps to go which ruined his chances of a maiden victory, but he was understandably delighted to finish in second place. Lewis Hamilton showed that he is a more rounded driver than he was in 2011 with a second consecutive third place showing he has the maturity to make the best of a bad job when circumstances were against him when he was caught out by the pit stops (like he was in Australia) to not make any mistakes and bring the car home in third place for 15 points which could be crucial at the end of the season.

On the other hand, team mate Jenson Button had a characteristically poor race after running second early on, but after outbraking himself he broke his front wing trying to overtake an HRT who was running there on position after an early gamble for wets paid off as when the red flag fell, Narain was running in 10th place which shocked fans worldwide. The red flag was also (im)famous for the introduction of gazebos all down the grid, something previously pioneered by Mercedes in Canada last season.

2012 has seen (so far) probably one of the most competitive midfields in many seasons with Force India, Sauber, Williams and Toro Rosso all pushing the top teams for points and Sauber have already claimed a podium through Perez and it could be said that on pure one lap pace, most of these teams are as quick as if not faster than Ferrari, certainly faster than Felipe Massa who is really coming under pressure for his seat after 2 mediocre performances so far while Alonso continued to drag the car to places where it shouldn't really be.

Looking ahead to China and it has been a track which has favoured McLaren in recent years with Lewis Hamilton winning in 2008 and 2011 and Jenson Button winning in the rain affected 2010 race. Hamilton should have won in 2007 but famously threw it away in the pitlane after running wide on very used tyres when he was in a position to win the Championship, something with now Lotus driver Kimi Raikkonen took advantage of to win the race and eventually steal the Championship in Brazil.

China will also be an importunity to be the first true comparison of Sky and BBC as it is the first race that will be shown live on BBC and it will certainly be very interesting to see where the two broadcasters shape up over a full race weekend and it will show to people in their own minds which one is better and it is pretty clear that it certainly won't be a clear cut thing and will be down more to personal preference than the overall package compared to the other.

For Galahad's brilliant circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/shanghai-international-circuit/
 
If the Mercedes are up the front with great qualifying, will they start a train behind them in the race? Their race pace hasnt been great and with great top line speed they could be difficult to pass. Could make for a fun race if thats the case....
 
If the Mercedes are up the front with great qualifying, will they start a train behind them in the race? Their race pace hasnt been great and with great top line speed they could be difficult to pass. Could make for a fun race if thats the case....

You make a good point their Chris and with Schumie on form it seems could we see a repeat of Monza last year with him keeping Lewis stuck behind? I guess it depends on if they've sorted their tyre issues out
 
You make a good point their Chris and with Schumie on form it seems could we see a repeat of Monza last year with him keeping Lewis stuck behind? I guess it depends on if they've sorted their tyre issues out

Schumacher would find himself driving through the pit-lane if he repeated his Monza antics again this year.
 
If you'd read the explanations given, you'd have known that with penalties for a technical reason the time/position a driver set in qualifying is recorded as his final position but when it's due to something a driver did (as in Alonso's case) his final position will be the one where he starts from after the penalty is applied.
Pèrez, for example, is classified as 17th in the Australian qualifying while his final grid slot was 22nd because of a gear box change.

Sorry for the off-topicness...

that is what I meant is that Hamilton started on pole position slot at the official start of the race so he should be the one classified as pole man as Brogan pointed out
 
Rosberg needs a good quali session after messing up the last 2 but I can't see them landing the pole spot. Button was actually in front of Lewis here last year and on pole here in 09 so he obviously likes the track. Can't help but think that after his 4 weeks of press hassle and with Hamilton out the way we might see Mr Vettel sneak a pole tomorrow.

Vettel only just got pole last year and that was with the DRS assistance but this was one of the races where they did not have it their own way

FYI since 2009 it has been Vettel pole here
 
I do think the Renault powered cars could be at a disadvantage on the long straights

Red Bull's best hope of winning is to get pole and clear off into the distance otherwise they are going to be suckers down the straights
 
Schumacher would find himself driving through the pit-lane if he repeated his Monza antics again this year.

Unfairly so if thats the case. Nothing wrong with his Monza driving. I know they ranted about 'blocking' on the British commentary but I don't think it was mentioned anywhere else. If it had been anyone else but Michael Schumacher we would have been talking about a great defensive drive.

But lets not get off topic eh?

Vettel only just got pole last year and that was with the DRS assistance but this was one of the races where they did not have it their own way

FYI since 2009 it has been Vettel pole here

Have they not got DRS this year? confused. Yes last year they didn't ahve their own way its true but if we go back to 2009 it was the one track the Red Bull could compete with the double diffusor of the Brawn so they'be had mixed runnings on the track.

They certainly look closer to the Mclarens in practice than they've looked all season but we shall see.
 
Unfairly so if thats the case. Nothing wrong with his Monza driving. I know they ranted about 'blocking' on the British commentary but I don't think it was mentioned anywhere else.
One of the stewards after the race said they got it wrong and he should have been penalised.
The only reason he wasn't was because they were busy dealing with other incidents and then forgot.
 
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Nope. It would be perfectly fair and to the letter of the rules, which were amended as a result of Schumacher's dangerous driving last year.

But yes, we don't need that conversation again so we'll forget you contended it. ;)

One of the stewards after the race said they got it wrong and he should have been penalised.
The only reason he wasn't was because they were busy dealing with other incidents and then forgot.

*shrug* fair enough - maybe my idea of defenisve driving is outside the rules but I don't remember much weaving and I don't remember Lewis being put in any danger so alls fair in love and F1 in my book
 
Yeah but they'll ruin any chances Hamilton has of catching Button and the Red Bulls.
Why? It might actually help, if the Mercs were to hold up anyone between themselves and Hamilton enough to give him a run at them. And at least one of the Red Bulls usually makes a duff start, so there's the potential to make at least one place up by turn one.

The problem in the early stages, for anyone trying to pass the Mercs, might be that if they don't get past in the first two laps, the now indisputably legal DRS W-Duct device could help keep the German pair ahead, a bit like Schumi kept Hamilton at bay at Monza last year (at least until their tyres go off, around lap eight or thereabouts).

Edit: Doh! for some reason I didn't see the intervening posts, starting with chris1981, who made a similar point to mine but put it far more succinctly.
 
You brought it up

Not for discussion. Just stating that the sort of defence we saw from Schumacher last year would not be permissible this year. That was in response to someone mentioning the possibility of a Mercedes road block as we saw in Monza 2011

Seriously, let's move on.

Although, the point that if they were to get in front of Button and the Red Bull's at the start and hold them back until their tyres go is an interesting one. It could prevent a runaway victory.
 
Not for discussion. Just stating that the sort of defence we saw from Schumacher last year would not be permissible this year. That was in response to someone mentioning the possibility of a Mercedes road block as we saw in Monza 2011

Seriously, let's move on.

Although, the point that if they were to get in front of Button and the Red Bull's at the start and hold them back until their tyres go is an interesting one. It could prevent a runaway victory.

I think the point I was making is that judging on the last couple of grids he's more likely to be holding up someone like Lewis trying to come back through the field - hence the mention of Monza - although it would beinteresting to see what would happen if its Schumi's Merc rather than Rosberg's Merc that took the lead of the Grand Prix. I get the feeling something might wake up in the Kaiser and he might suddenly be quicker than we expected
 
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