Grand Prix 2012 Chinese Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Racking up the air miles now

Going into the third race of the 2012 season and it is still unclear where everyone lies in true race pace over a normal dry race without the intervention of a safety car apart from that McLaren have done the best job of the teams with Red Bull and Mercedes not too far apart but Mercedes seem to be struggling with higher levels of tyre degradation compared to the other front runners.

Despite all the highly publicised problems at Ferrari, Fernando Alonso currently leads the Championship after a 5th place in Australia and an against the odds victory in Malaysia where the rain early on managed to put Alonso in the lead when the others struggled. However this doesn't mean things are rosy in Maranello as when the track dried up Alonso started to fall back and was being hunted down by none other than Sergio Perez in the Sauber who was closing in rapidly on the Spaniard only to make a minor mistake with a couple of laps to go which ruined his chances of a maiden victory, but he was understandably delighted to finish in second place. Lewis Hamilton showed that he is a more rounded driver than he was in 2011 with a second consecutive third place showing he has the maturity to make the best of a bad job when circumstances were against him when he was caught out by the pit stops (like he was in Australia) to not make any mistakes and bring the car home in third place for 15 points which could be crucial at the end of the season.

On the other hand, team mate Jenson Button had a characteristically poor race after running second early on, but after outbraking himself he broke his front wing trying to overtake an HRT who was running there on position after an early gamble for wets paid off as when the red flag fell, Narain was running in 10th place which shocked fans worldwide. The red flag was also (im)famous for the introduction of gazebos all down the grid, something previously pioneered by Mercedes in Canada last season.

2012 has seen (so far) probably one of the most competitive midfields in many seasons with Force India, Sauber, Williams and Toro Rosso all pushing the top teams for points and Sauber have already claimed a podium through Perez and it could be said that on pure one lap pace, most of these teams are as quick as if not faster than Ferrari, certainly faster than Felipe Massa who is really coming under pressure for his seat after 2 mediocre performances so far while Alonso continued to drag the car to places where it shouldn't really be.

Looking ahead to China and it has been a track which has favoured McLaren in recent years with Lewis Hamilton winning in 2008 and 2011 and Jenson Button winning in the rain affected 2010 race. Hamilton should have won in 2007 but famously threw it away in the pitlane after running wide on very used tyres when he was in a position to win the Championship, something with now Lotus driver Kimi Raikkonen took advantage of to win the race and eventually steal the Championship in Brazil.

China will also be an importunity to be the first true comparison of Sky and BBC as it is the first race that will be shown live on BBC and it will certainly be very interesting to see where the two broadcasters shape up over a full race weekend and it will show to people in their own minds which one is better and it is pretty clear that it certainly won't be a clear cut thing and will be down more to personal preference than the overall package compared to the other.

For Galahad's brilliant circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/shanghai-international-circuit/
 
I may be wrong, but I think if you have been particularly naughty and had your wrists slapped by stewards, then they take the pole away completely. You would have to have done something really sly though
 
Hang on (at the risk of opening more controversy) If a driver gets pole position then gets a grid penalty but the pole still counts as his own. Why does Hungary 2007 count as Hamiltons pole?

It depends on what type of penalty is given. If its a technical penalty such a gearbox or engine change and not the fault of a driver then the pole is given. If it is a penalty given for the drivers behaviour in quali such as impeading another driver etc etc then the pole is not given.

Thats a blanket rule for all
 
Just been having a quick look over stats for China and drivers and Jenson Button seems to fare quite well. He's actually taken part in every single Chinese Grand Prix and scored points in every one bar the 2008 season infact he's finished in all positions from 1-5! He has had varied luck though. Whilst his record looks good his spin in 2009 cost him 2nd and pulling into wrong pitlane last year did him no favours at all. Still he had a great race there in 2008 and last year he out qualified Lewis so he obviouosly likes the track

In the last 5 Chinese Grand Prix Nico Rosberg has only finished above his qualifying position once

Pastor Maldonado claims this is his favourite track yet in his only Grand Prix here he qualifed 17th and finished 18th

oh and of course both Toro Rosso drivers will be hoping the below doesn't happen to them this year:

 
Hang on (at the risk of opening more controversy) If a driver gets pole position then gets a grid penalty but the pole still counts as his own. Why does Hungary 2007 count as Hamiltons pole?

Maybe difference between a driver penalty imposed for an incident during the qualifying session and a mechanical penalty for a gearbox change required before the session starts?

I'd like this question answering too though.
 
I love the way in the replay after both his front wheels fly off he is still trying to steer the car to avoid hitting the bariers :D

I couldn't find the clip but when he was interviewed by a journalist about it afterwards her dictaphone broke into pieces! Its almost like he had a hidden X-Man power!
 
I couldn't find the clip but when he was interviewed by a journalist about it afterwards her dictaphone broke into pieces! Its almost like he had a hidden X-Man power!

I love the way that after it fell apart she's still trying to speak into it to try and record stuff. ;-)
 
I've seen something along the lines of this on a few websites now, so im getting a little confused as to whether it would count as pole or not:-

"The problem immediately puts Hamilton on the back foot for a race he has won twice in the last four years. It also scuppers his hopes of a hat-trick of poles for the first time in his Formula One career."

???
 
It depends on what type of penalty is given. If its a technical penalty such a gearbox or engine change and not the fault of a driver then the pole is given. If it is a penalty given for the drivers behaviour in quali such as impeading another driver etc etc then the pole is not given.

Thats a blanket rule for all
If lewis takes pole, second or third he will still be in the press conference even though he will not start from that position..
 
Ah BBC still do classic F1 :)

China 2009 is on, and it's one of Buemi's finest races, plus there's a bit of Legard to help the day :)
 
He does go into the press conferance as we saw at India last year!

Final grid positions are only official once they are on the grid because it is subject to appeals , penalties and engine and gearbox changes

Hamilton were he to get pole he would not be recorded as pole position to him because he won't be starting from pole if you look at it that way
 
Final grid positions are only official once they are on the grid because it is subject to appeals , penalties and engine and gearbox changes

Hamilton were he to get pole he would not be recorded as pole position to him because he won't be starting from pole if you look at it that way

to add this qualifying is unofficial grid position before any of the mentioned above like finishing the race is not considered classified until the stewards have said they have dealt with all incidents then it is fully declared as final
 
Final grid positions are only official once they are on the grid because it is subject to appeals , penalties and engine and gearbox changes

Hamilton were he to get pole he would not be recorded as pole position to him because he won't be starting from pole if you look at it that way

Except that he will be recorded as pole position as has already been explained earlier in this thread.
 
Hamilton could (theoretically anyway) still get pole position.
I believe that all penalties are applied in chronological order, therefore it's possible that he could qualify quickest, drop to fifth on the grid with his penalty but then be promoted again if the next quickest four were to all receive grid penalties for their own infractions (be it gearbox changes or driving misdemeanours) during practice or qualifying. Any such penalties, as they would have been given after Hamilton's, would drop the perpetrators behind him again on the grid.

Not very likely, I have to admit, but possible. And in any case, I'm sure he would trade a pole position for a win if it were offered.
 
Hamilton could (theoretically anyway) still get pole position.
I believe that all penalties are applied in chronological order, therefore it's possible that he could qualify quickest, drop to fifth on the grid with his penalty but then be promoted again if the next quickest four were to all receive grid penalties for their own infractions (be it gearbox changes or driving misdemeanours) during practice or qualifying. Any such penalties, as they would have been given after Hamilton's, would drop the perpetrators behind him again on the grid.

Not very likely, I have to admit, but possible. And in any case, I'm sure he would trade a pole position for a win if it were offered.

it happened in the Japanese GP qualifying 2009 when Glock crashed in quali and it messed things up and then it was based on when the penalties / car under investigation were applied during the session and you had a few drivers getting penalty for gearbox change and then a few for ignoring flags etc
 
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