Grand Prix 2011 Canadian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Thought this might be useful if you wanted to sing along to the Canadian National Anthem before the start of the race.

Anyway, on to the Grand Prix, after all that’s what we’re here for. Last year Bridgestone provided tyres, which didn’t like the surface at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve too much, and the powers that be in F1 thought “ah, ha here’s an idea to spice up the racing. Why don’t we ask those blokes at Pirelli if they can make sets of boots for F1 cars that fall apart on the warm up lap”, and they did.

In 2010 Hamilton put his car on pole (you may recall him pushing his car back to the pits, so light was it on fuel) and then went on to win an exciting race with teammate Jenson Button standing on the 2nd step.

So what for Canada 2011? Red Bull, at least car No.1, has been a tad difficult to beat but McLaren and Ferrari are getting closer during the race. With 5 wins out of 6 races Vettel has a healthy lead in the Championship and some bookmakers are already paying out on the title being his. Vettel was 3rd on the grid last year, behind teammate Webber, and finished 4th with unspecified gearbox problems, still ahead of Webber who had led for many laps but got caught out by the high tyre wear rate.

Fernando Alonso was 3rd last time out in Canada after getting mugged by a hard charging Jenson Button. Mercedes had a mixed race, Rosberg was “best of the rest” behind the McLaren’s, Alonso’s Ferrari and the Red Bull’s whilst Michael Schumacher treated the race like a destruction derby, straight lining chicanes and bouncing off other cars with gay abandon. What of Felipe Massa I hear you ask; well, he was one of Schumacher’s victims and lost time pitting for a new nose cone.

This is very nearly the last Hurrah for the exhaust blown diffuser and we have two, yes 2, DRS zones. So expect cars breezing past another before and after the pits, when they’re not in their getting new tyres of course.

Will it be another Red Bull walk over or can the McLaren’s and Ferrari’s tame the charging Bull? How will the Pirelli tyres hold up dusty and bumpy Ille Notre-Dame Circuit? Will it rain? Who will win? Can one of the minor teams struggle up into the points? I don’t know but I get the feeling there will be lots of speculation.

And we have our own track side reporter this year - take a bow Ray in Toronto and make sure you post some good photos

For Galahad’s excellent circuit write up, track history and all the stats a boy or girl could want click here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-gilles-villeneuve/

 

[Hamberg]

I'm watching the start again, I'll let you guys know shortly...

 

[Hamberg]

That's a fair amount of info from the Stewards - finally!

 

[Slyboogy]

I find the last reason for the last inquiry unconvincing, they stated valid points for Hamilton and Button, but the other just seemed like they couldn't be bothered dealing with it.

Can't say whose fault it was, just asking for better reasons

 

[Speshal]

There was no time to react to the way the Sauber seemed to stop. I'm not saying he was break testing, it was just unfortunate.

Yes, driving right up someone's rear is often referred to as break testing.

 

[Slyboogy]

Yes, driving right up someone's rear is often referred to as break testing.

To be fair to Evilwhippet he did say - "I'm not saying he was break testing, it was just unfortunate."

It is to contradict his comment on how the Sauber "seemed" to stop, I seem to read his post differently, as I read as Whippet believes it was unfortunate and not either drivers 100% fault.

 

[Hamberg]

I think they got it wrong with Hamilton being under investigation as the only display was for car number 4. I fail to see how either of them could have sped under the safety car off the start as they were in the pack and neither backed anyone up. I think it was just Jenson and he did it between the deployment and coming in for inters as he hadn't caught up by then.

As for the Webber one, it was announced "no further action" and it's an assumption it was because Lewis went off. They've announced that decision before and it was consistent with other decisions this weekend.

 

[Jru]

I'd like to think of those as some sanity prevailing - they don't always make the right decision but those seem correct to me.

 

[Brogan]

Stewards also investigated Hamilton for the parking of his car and deemed that he stopped within 6 seconds of team instruction.No punishment

 

[jez101]

He seems to be under a lot of scrutiny...

 

[Pyrope]

I'll catch up on the comments here when I can... for now I just want to dry out. I have never, ever, been as wet as I was today. But what a race! And Seb slid off right in front of me... Well worth over three hours sitting in soggy pants.

Some British dude on a flight into Heathrow tomorrow will be toting a Renault front wing courtesy of Nick Heidfeld. Now that is a proper track invasion trophy! Lucky so and so...

 

[Sarinaide]

When I first saw it, I thought it was Button's fault, as Alonso looked ahead at turn in.
Some of the camera angles show JB level with, or even in front of FA, but he seems to break slightly earlier. Not sure if this is him trying to back out of the move half-heartedly, or that Alonso just braked a little later hoping to either get round the outside.

It would seem unfair if you've made the move correctly, got level, got the apex, then the guy on the outside brakes a bit later but still expects the turn in.
Not sure about that move to be honest.

1] Alonso was tailing the Mercedes Petronas on the racing line.....it is termed the "racing line" because it allows you to carry the greatest amout of speed into the chicane and have the right line in and out of that particular chicane.

2] Button pulled a Di Riesta move(final chicane) having the inside line hence needing to over brake just to turn into the chicane,....from the link I posted you can see he has tremendous understeer and goes straight into Alonso's rear wheel.

3] It is not an "overtaking zone" and that is pretty evident by the fact that x number of cars hit that wall getting it wrong on the race line let alone off it.....single file does it.

4] If the positions was reversed we would have the hordes of Mc Fanatics in uproar claiming that Alonso did something stupid and a penalty is well justified.....sorry either way you slice it Button ought to have known he was in no mans land and that he was going to have to over brake to just turn his nose into the corner....if you see the fact that he would have had to cut the race line and probably the opposite apex is clearly and difinitively not a race incident...it was a gamble and risk that one driver was compromised for doing nothing wrong.

 

[Sarinaide]

So we move on from the aftermath of a so-so Canadian GP and a few noting points arise:

1] Big winners of the day > None other than Red Bull Racing...No win but two cars on the podium and streaking further ahead in the constructors championship.

2] The protagonist for another big RBR victory, the man that benefited most from his misdeeds taking out two prominant competitors along with other infractions, while I don't really believe that Button's victory really achieved anything I really can see the FIA stewards giving the most sympathetic leniancy verdict condoning reckless gambles that cost others dearly.

 

[Sarinaide]

Oh why am I not surprised, No punishment for either of Buttons incidents.....

And now for the Lewis fans I am extremely sympathetic for, and really the FIA is earmarking who they like and don't like....I distictly remember Lewis getting a post race reprimand for his Pastor Maldonado plough in Monaco when he did not have the race line.....double standards is what I say.

1] Alonso has to make the turn, he is on the racing line and well at liberty to do that (or where else must he go) he can take the turn with much higher speed so really no blame at all (as was the Maldonado incident at Monaco), those that say yield clearly don't realise that it is racing.

2] Shades of Kubica/Shumacher in 2010 at Montreal, you can't expect to make the chicane on the inside line, the only thing stoping button grassing it is Alonso's car......

3] The only saving grace was the weather otherwise it was undisputedly causing an incident. All this does is condones passing in no passing zones......

 

[Quintessentially]

Button is generally seen as a clean driver elder stateman so all the incidents would've been assessed with a favourable view. Personally I think it's good that the result is allowed to stand with no further punishment. I don't think Todt and the FIA have the stomach for the sort of public relations disaster regularly seen under Mosley by constantly interferring with race results. I also get the feeling Ferrari were not too keen on protesting on Alonso's behalf (although I think they would've had a strong argument) It would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face as any punishment will benefit no one other than Vettel and leave Ferrari a bigger uphill battle.

 

[The Pits]

Sarinaide, please define a no passing zone.

the maldonado incident was harsh on Lewis, however, he was further back than Jenson easy during the moves. also, the hamilton/webber move early on was similar, but also unpunished.

My personal opinoon is that there was a lack of consistency in the penalties between monaco and here, although in Canada I think the decisions were better made. I would also like to add that there seem to be rumblings of inconsistencies elsewhere wrt these incidents, with some seeming to think that Jenson should have been punished for something that Lewis was, but should not have been punished for.

 

[Sarinaide]

Sarinaide, please define a no passing zone.

the maldonado incident was harsh on Lewis, however, he was further back than Jenson easy during the moves. also, the hamilton/webber move early on was similar, but also unpunished.

That chicane is a single file part of the race track, and looking at the amount of braking Button put in to get his nose sort of into the chicane and the understeer shows that at some point he was going to cut right across the race line.....IMHO button was grassing it if he didn't rear end Alonso, which would have been a Penalty anyways.

And the Hamilton/Webber incident was recinded because Hamilton went out of the race before any investigation.

Button is generally seen as a clean driver elder stateman so all the incidents would've been assessed with a favourable view. Personally I think it's good that the result is allowed to stand with no further punishment. I don't think Todt and the FIA have the stomach for the sort of public relations disaster regularly seen under Mosley by constantly interferring with race results. I also get the feeling Ferrari were not too keen on protesting on Alonso's behalf (although I think they would've had a strong argument) It would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face as any punishment will benefit no one other than Vettel and leave Ferrari a bigger uphill battle.

I think that is why they were so iffy on the report, Ferrari get no gains other than spiting another driver, but really it was a day that really I have absolutely no respect for the manner of the win.

 

[The Pits]

Sarinaide, he went for the gap, and he was alongside, the alonso turned in. it happens a lot, however, it is in the focus at Tue moment due to the penalties in Monaco. So i respectfully disagree.

as for the manner of the win, I can name instances of similar circumstance where the driver has been praised. Lewis in Monaco, for finishing sixth despite his issues, vettel at silverstone 10, in spite of his dodgems to come through the field.

I know you disagree, and that is fair enough, i am simply trying to point out the inconsistencies. in my opinion, of course.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

That chicane is a single file part of the race track

Where in the regulations does it state that? Is it perhaps an unwritten rule, or did they maybe make it clear in the drivers' briefing that no-one was to attempt a pass at a chicane?

 

[Hamberg]

I really don't get all this 'racing line', 'no overtaking zone' ' one car length ahead' stuff that's repeatedly used in arguments for blame and punishments. Are these new rules that are in place as I can't find them?

I understand some places may be natural places to do things but they aren't automatic rights to keep that position or hit someone else. The better overtakers brake later, take unusual lines and often will try to overtake wherever there is an opportunity (which incidentally is anywhere they like within the white lines). Even some of the drivers (ahem Massa) are jumping on it.

How about we celebrate the fact that finally overtaking (and some of the pains that go with it) by large has actually been allowed. Its called a race for a reason. The less penalties the better.

 

[Brogan]

For those who were discussing it earlier, this FIA document seems to suggest there was no damage to Hamilton's car, other than a puncture.

The Stewards have investigated the actions of the driver of Car 3 (L. Hamilton) after his collision with Car 4 (J. Button) in particular the matter of where he stopped his car.
Having heard from the driver and the team representative, the Stewards have concluded that the driver was convinced he only had a flat tyre. This was subsequently confirmed by the team representative to be correct.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/can-document-48.pdf