Grand Prix 2011 Belgian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's a long summer and the key discussions aren't about the F1.

As we are in the middle of the summer break, the SKY/BBC deal continues to take precedence over any on track action we saw at Hungary, which is a shame as we saw a cracker of a race where Jenson Button eventually won his second race of the season ahead of Sebastian Vettel who extended his lead at the top of the championship yet again and surely it takes a miracle for anyone to overtake him now with less than half the races to go.

However with Belgium coming closer on the calender, it seems as if Red Bull has lost the dominance it held over the first half of the season with McLaren appearing to have the best all round package with 4 wins now this year with 2 for Button and 2 for Hamilton. Ferrari aren't far behind and are perhaps the best team in warm conditions but that remains to be seen after a series of damp and cold races. However it would still be a foolish person to bet against Red Bull going into the Belgian Grand Prix where the fast sweeping corners and technical hairpins will no doubt play to their advantage.

Spa Francorchamps is regarded (quite rightly) as the best driver circuit on the calendar with the famous circuit having many variations from its original form to the current version which was last changed in 2006 to incorporate the new pit area and final chicane, the final chicane wasn't popular as both fans and drivers miss the challenging bus stop chicane and the 'new' pit lane which can cause problems.

The grand prix has been famous for it's unpredictable weather with violent storms and half the track being dry and the other wet at the same time and completely random showers, the big example was 2008 where a late shower caught out the entire field and cost Kimi Raikkonen (and eventually Hamilton) the win. In 1998 torrential rain caused one of the worst starts in F1 history where half the field was wiped out on turn 1, eventually (after a restart) Damon Hill won for Jordan in a 1-2 with Ralf Schumacher second, Michael Schumacher famously nearly started a fight with David Coulthard after crashing into him trying to lap him.

Michael Schumacher has an impressive record at this track, winning his first race at the track in 1992 and taking several wins at the track with his last coming in 2002 where he took his seventh world championship. However at the moment it is unlikely that he will add to his list of wins with the Mercedes well off the pace of the leading trio of Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull.

Mercedes might find themselves behind Force India at the race as the track suits them down to a tee, in 2009 Fisichella took a surprise pole position and then took second place just finishing behind Raikkonen in the Ferrari (who always seemed to win at Spa when he was driving there)
Sutil and Di Resta have shown impressive pace recently, with both achieving season bests at the last few races and are closing the gap to the flagging Renault team who have really lost performance since the start of the season with Heidfeld and Petrov dissapointing.

On a personal level I am really looking forward to this race as I have weekend tickets and will be at Pouhon all weekend to bring you the best coverage from the track, (better than these Sky lot anyway)

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-de-spa-francorchamps/
 
Wait... So you're saying you think Hamilton was weaving?

It is not too dissimilar to what he did to Alonso in Malaysia... and I am saying before anyone thinks its Mansell who has a hidden agenda against Lewis that possibly in Saubers/ Kobayashi's view Hamilton weaved which could be their argument

I am saying its a move I;ve seen Schumacher do many times to deliberately block people and ruin their noses
 
There are 4 stewards in that room so I think it's probably unfair to say that the driver steward has enough sway to bring forward any bias they may have for or against a driver. I'd be questioning the permanent stewards rather than the rotational ones.

I'd also like to say, Il_leone, SHUT UP!
 
I didn't mean it in that way. All i'm saying is some ex drivers clearly don't have it in them to be stewards without been unbiased. The best racing driver steward we've had this season has been Alain McNish - very good friend of Paul Di Resta but still had to punish him for his incident at Monaco.
I'd myself like to see two FIA personel, one ex-team leader and an ex racing driver be a steward at races. Maybe we'd see alot more fairness in the sport.
 
Perhaps Hamilton didn't make a big turn to the left, but he was slowly closing the gap to Kobayashi. Maybe you should take your hamilton-glasses off to see that?
He didn't make a big turn no, he didn't turn at all. I'm more than happy to have a debate with people but presenting incorrect facts to prove some non event is not on. Same with any suggestions of weaving.
 
There are 4 stewards in that room so I think it's probably unfair to say that the driver steward has enough sway to bring forward any bias they may have for or against a driver. I'd be questioning the permanent stewards rather than the rotational ones.

I'd also like to say, Il_leone, SHUT UP!

Hamberg

Did I say Hamilton did anything wrong ? Why don't get rid of your blinkers and don't tell anyone else to shut up if you don't agree with them otherwise go back to 606 then
I thought drivers and teams wanted ex drivers in the stewards because they thought the people on the stewards did not know the rules

There is only one permanent steward plus two rotational ones before they added the ex driver

You still need a majority to agree to apply the punishment
 
Niki Lauda has been overly critical of Hamilton when speaking publicly but has never had the opportunity to penalise him. As for Mansell I'm not saying he is anti-Hamilton but I'm saying by using more than one driver it decreases the liklihood of one driver holding more power to punish a driver they dislike. A little bit like the shambles that involved Alan Donelly except the FIA official in that scenario would be the ex-driver in this one.

As for Hamilton's weaving if he did deserve a penalty (IMO he didn't) it wouldn't have mattered anyway as Heidfeld's drive-through penalty in Germany was ignored as he retired from the race before serving it.

As to whether the defensive move was unfair we havn't had anyone say that, be it Kobayashi or EJ/DC or any other drivers...
 
I disagree with people a lot Il_leone, including Hamilton fans. But your posts are filled with venom, out of context, factually incorrect and antagonistic. Hypocritical I know given what I have just written but you are SO predictable.

I happen to agree with you regarding the stewards and I'm not going to hold the Mansell accountable, he doesn't have veto. But all this crap about weaving, seriously just give it a rest.
 
The problem is the majority always seem to find a way to slap Hamilton on the wrist whether he's actually done anything or not. Have you seen the onboard from his car when Maldonado hit him? Tell me, from that, what deserved a reprimand?

Any claims that Hamilton swerved to the left (apparenty so quickly only the hyper-evolved among us could see it) are just blatantly fictional. Again, look at Hamilton's onboard and you can see he had nothing alongside him and was going straight along the racing line.
 
Interesting race...first thing I would like to say.

What a shame for Toro Rosso! Both of their drivers get taken out for no reason, Alguersuari had his best qualifying and was right up there, and then Buemi running in 6th and gets ploughed by Perez.

Both of these Sauber drivers need to calm down, both were caught up in two incidents each as I have stated in the Sauber thread, Perez had a incident at the start, then hits Buemi. Kobayashi had a damaged front wing before his incident with Hamilton.

Great drive from Vettel, Schumacher and Button, Rosberg was good in the early stages, as was Buemi.

As for the Hamilton and Kobayashi incident, I think no one deserved a penalty, would have given both the benefit of the doubt as I am sure Hamilton didn't know where Kobayashi's car was, and Kobayashi expected Hamilton to give him room but he closed it off as he didn't know he was there. Reminds me of the Heidfeld and Buemi incident in Germany, Heidfeld came from a long way back though and Buemi was already looking into the corner and took his line, and who got the penalty?
Buemi....

Very annoyed by both Toro Rosso drivers getting taken out, I am no fan of Alguersuari's I think he's been given too many chances, he's been doing better now, but both of the Toro Rosso drivers got taken out today for no fault of their own and would probably have had a strong double points finish, their updates seemed to be doing them great.

Oh and another thing....the DRS once again was a farce.
 
As for the Hamilton and Kobayashi incident, I think no one deserved a penalty, would have given both the benefit of the doubt as I am sure Hamilton didn't know where Kobayashi's car was, and Kobayashi expected Hamilton to give him room but he closed it off as he didn't know he was there. Reminds me of the Heidfeld and Buemi incident in Germany, Heidfeld came from a long way back though and Buemi was already looking into the corner and took his line, and who got the penalty?
Buemi....

But the great one was fully alongside when the moose sent him into the gravel. The moose deserved to be flayed and have his head put up in a huntsmen's lodge for that one.
 
When there is points and money involved and race incidents which is costly to drivers and teams you'd expect the stewards to be involved

First of all the integrity of the stewards was called into question and the demand for ex drivers to be on the stewards and now the integrity of ex drivers are being called into question too...I've seen less ridiculous penalties handed out since ex drivers were on the stewards

The next problem you'll have is premiership referees because teams don't want certain referees refereeing their matches because they feel they are bias or have something against them... someone down the line will say this driver is handing out penalties to help his old team argument ! In that case you're all basically going to end up with ex drivers being removed from stewards ultimately
 
But the great one was fully alongside when the moose sent him into the gravel. The moose deserved to be flayed and have his head put up in a huntsmen's lodge for that one.

No he wasn't, he approached him late, and was only alongside once Buemi braked into the corner, surprised the Moose didn't get out of the car then use his horns to show him not to mess...but then would have the bearded one grabbed the Moose by the horns? :thinking:
 
All the greatest hunters have fine beards and are built to look cool in war. Gerard Butler and Nick Heidfeld would make a great team...

TONIGHT...WE DINE....AT THE FAR END OF THE RENAULT HOSPITALITY TENT AND GLARE AT THE PEOPLE WHO STILL HAVE JOBS!!!!!
 
Lewis on Twitter: "After watching the replay, I realize it was my fault today 100%. I didn't give Kobayashi enough room though I thought in was past."
 
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