Grand Prix 2011 Belgian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

It's a long summer and the key discussions aren't about the F1.

As we are in the middle of the summer break, the SKY/BBC deal continues to take precedence over any on track action we saw at Hungary, which is a shame as we saw a cracker of a race where Jenson Button eventually won his second race of the season ahead of Sebastian Vettel who extended his lead at the top of the championship yet again and surely it takes a miracle for anyone to overtake him now with less than half the races to go.

However with Belgium coming closer on the calender, it seems as if Red Bull has lost the dominance it held over the first half of the season with McLaren appearing to have the best all round package with 4 wins now this year with 2 for Button and 2 for Hamilton. Ferrari aren't far behind and are perhaps the best team in warm conditions but that remains to be seen after a series of damp and cold races. However it would still be a foolish person to bet against Red Bull going into the Belgian Grand Prix where the fast sweeping corners and technical hairpins will no doubt play to their advantage.

Spa Francorchamps is regarded (quite rightly) as the best driver circuit on the calendar with the famous circuit having many variations from its original form to the current version which was last changed in 2006 to incorporate the new pit area and final chicane, the final chicane wasn't popular as both fans and drivers miss the challenging bus stop chicane and the 'new' pit lane which can cause problems.

The grand prix has been famous for it's unpredictable weather with violent storms and half the track being dry and the other wet at the same time and completely random showers, the big example was 2008 where a late shower caught out the entire field and cost Kimi Raikkonen (and eventually Hamilton) the win. In 1998 torrential rain caused one of the worst starts in F1 history where half the field was wiped out on turn 1, eventually (after a restart) Damon Hill won for Jordan in a 1-2 with Ralf Schumacher second, Michael Schumacher famously nearly started a fight with David Coulthard after crashing into him trying to lap him.

Michael Schumacher has an impressive record at this track, winning his first race at the track in 1992 and taking several wins at the track with his last coming in 2002 where he took his seventh world championship. However at the moment it is unlikely that he will add to his list of wins with the Mercedes well off the pace of the leading trio of Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull.

Mercedes might find themselves behind Force India at the race as the track suits them down to a tee, in 2009 Fisichella took a surprise pole position and then took second place just finishing behind Raikkonen in the Ferrari (who always seemed to win at Spa when he was driving there)
Sutil and Di Resta have shown impressive pace recently, with both achieving season bests at the last few races and are closing the gap to the flagging Renault team who have really lost performance since the start of the season with Heidfeld and Petrov dissapointing.

On a personal level I am really looking forward to this race as I have weekend tickets and will be at Pouhon all weekend to bring you the best coverage from the track, (better than these Sky lot anyway)

For Galahad's excellent circuit write up, see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-de-spa-francorchamps/
 
Let's not get carried away Gert. I'll be furious if there is a penalty as well, but we all know that the stewards pick on Lewis because he is black, not because he's the fastest.

(At least Ali G says so)

edit - adding a smiley just in case :snigger:

Well we will see what will happen... My opinion is that Maldonado should be sent to the back of the grid.
 
What's quite strange is from looking at the sector times here:- http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel-qualifying-sectors.pdf

Lewis was quickest in the middle sector, a tenth ahead of Vettel. Red Bull have been miles quicker there all weekend. Contrastingly, Vettel was then 3 tenths quicker than Lewis in sector 1. McLaren looked to be using slightly more downforce than Red Bull and so maybe this explains that shift from the norm, saying this, it looks like Red Bull's strategy has worked, especially as it will be dry tomorrow. They seem to have a better top speed and slightly more powerful DRS and thus will be difficult to pass.

It is either that, or Lewis lost straight line speed due to the crash with Maldonado. I guess we may find out tomorrow.

Also worth looking at the speed trap and 3 intermediate maximum speeds:-
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel-qualifying-trap.pdf
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel-qualifying-speeds.pdf

I think the speed trap is actually at the top of Eau Rouge, therefore it isn't really truly indicative of potential top speed. The finish line speed gun will also only get them as they are accelerating out of the last slow S corners. Does anyone know where intermediate 1 is?
 
Woah there people, let's just wait and see shall we - there is no reason to give Hamilton a penalty, it's not even subjective. What I'm waiting to see is how severe a penalty Maldonado gets.

What concerns me is he had all that time to react and still chose to retaliate. If he's capable of doing that on track post heat of the moment then what might his temper cause him to do in the heat of the moment. whacking someone out of the car is different. He deliberately caused damage to Hamilton's car.
 
Disgraceful behavior by Maldonado, the session was over and when Hamilton saw him he moved to the left.
I will be surprised if he doesn't receive some form of ban, the back of the grid when you are already 18th is not enough punishment in my opinion.
 
it looks like Red Bull's strategy has worked, especially as it will be dry tomorrow. They seem to have a better top speed and

It is very strange to see Red Bull near the very top of the speed trap. They have definitely re-thought their Spa strategy from years past. The rear wing they're running is very tiny.
 
If these 3 speed traps are parallel with the end of the 3 sectors:- http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel-qualifying-speeds.pdf

Then it would suggest Hamilton has the best traction out of the final corner, you can see the difference in traction between the McLaren and the Red Bull. Not surprisingly, Hamilton and Vettel (who were top 2 in sector 2 times) top the intermediate 2 speed trap which would be mid corner. Intermediate 1 would be at the end of the Kemmel Straight. So this is possibly indicitive of the potential top speeds. No surprise with Rosberg topping it and it looks like Webber, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton are all very close on their top speeds.

It looks like Hamilton was just really slow through Eau Rouge for some reason, as he was slow in sector 1 and 6 - 8 KPH down on the speed trap at the top of Eau Rouge. I didn't notice him opening his DRS on the run up to Eau Rouge, before the point at which it is banned. Quite strange that. . . You get the feeling that had he got Eau Rouge right, he could have been on pole.

What will be encouraging for McLaren is as I mentioned in a previous post, Lewis was quickest in the mighty high speed sector 2. It means there car is really improving and had he hooked up the 1st and 3rd sectors, seeming as we now know he had the same top speed and probably better traction than Red Bull then he could have had pole. Maybe this damage to his car had an impact. I reckon Button would also of had a great chance of pole too - he looked quicker than Hamilton most the time over the weekend.
 
Aren't people forgetting that the DRS can be used everywhere around the circuit except Eau Rouge thats why Red Bull always seems to have an advantage in quali because it can be applied to obtain more downforce but in the race its only when they are behind another car.

The last person Vettel need alongside him is a really fired Hamilton and I don;t think Webber is going to settle for 2nd best again after Silverstone eitehr
 
I know this is bringing it all back to Hamilton again, but I think I missed something - after Sutil's accident in Q2, MB said that Hamilton had just set a purple sector in sector 1. Is this correct? (I wasn't watching the live timing).... Hopefully not....
 
It is very strange to see Red Bull near the very top of the speed trap. They have definitely re-thought their Spa strategy from years past. The rear wing they're running is very tiny.

Keke see my further post ( just above ) to see an explanation for this. The official speed trap is at the top of Eau Rouge so it'd make sense for Red Bull to be quickest. They are actually equal on speed with McLaren at the Intermediate 1 speed trap, at the end of the Kemmel Straight. I think for whatever reason, Hamilton did not get sector 1 hooked up on his flying run, because the McLaren has better traction and the same top speed as Red Bull and beat it in sector 2, so there is no reason for it to not be quicker or at least match Red Bull in sector 1. I imagine if we could see an on board, we may see him go wide at La Source or something, who knows.
 
I know this is bringing it all back to Hamilton again, but I think I missed something - after Sutil's accident in Q2, MB said that Hamilton had just set a purple sector in sector 1. Is this correct? (I wasn't watching the live timing).... Hopefully not....
He said something about not being sure whether it was set before or after the incident.

I guess we would have heard by now if was the latter.
 
Aren't people forgetting that the DRS can be used everywhere around the circuit except Eau Rouge thats why Red Bull always seems to have an advantage in quali because it can be applied to obtain more downforce but in the race its only when they are behind another car.

The last person Vettel need alongside him is a really fired Hamilton and I don;t think Webber is going to settle for 2nd best again after Silverstone eitehr

Think you got your wording slightly wrong there. The DRS is applied to reduce drag, not to obtain more downforce - it actually reduces downforce, whilst it is applied. Throughout the season Red Bull has A. had a very powerful DRS in terms of drag reduction and B. been able to activate their DRS where others cannot (mainly in high speed corners). I do not think either of these have accounted for Vettel being on pole today though. Hamilton was quicker in sector 2 where all the high speed corners are and in the best indicator of top speed, his top speed was essentially the same as that of Webber and Vettel. As I've said in a few of my posts now. I think for some reason Hamilton had a poor sector 1 and a poor entry to Eau Rouge on his best lap, otherwise he would have been on pole or very close to it.
 
Are we seeing a different approach from red bull?

It was pointed out on twitter that they seem to be running less rear wing than some others. If they are looking for top speed traded off for high speed cornering, factoring in the efficiency of their DRS I would suggest that in the race, it will be close, but the drs advantage will be nullified.

I still think the McLaren looks good though, and with the length of the lap and changing conditions, compared to previous tracks, the qualifying advantage will hopefully disappear.
 
Another interesting point I've just noticed here:- http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/bel-qualifying-times.pdf

If you compare Vettel, Webber and Hamilton. Both Vettel and Webber did 4 hot laps in Q3, whereas Hamilton only managed 3. Remember Brazil last year where Hulk got pole due to being out earlier on slicks and thus getting them warmed up. It was quite clear that each lap the times were dropping significantly. If Lewis could have gone out earlier in Q3 and got in that 4th flying lap, then maybe he would have been on pole due to that also.

All speculation, but I think it has grounds for a good case.
 
If he did indeed have some suspension damage, then presumably it would affect the car through Eau Rouge the most. And we also saw some serious bouncing under braking into the final chicane, something which hadn't been terribly noticeable before that.

Very good point. I imagine the front suspension gets worked a lot under braking, at the end of a straight and thus you saw Lewis' front wing bouncing before the final chicane, which im sure had not happened before. It is also likely that this would affect him through Eau Rouge.

All in all, I think I am convinced based on all this evidence that McLaren had the pace to be on pole today with either Button or Hamilton had things panned out a little more normally for them.
 
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