2011 Average Race

[Kamui-FastestChefInTheWorld]

Let's take a moment here to consider that perhaps it was Vettel, rather than the RB7, that was the difference to this year's championship. If the RB7 was that good then surely Red Bull could have expected more than a mere three 1-2 finishes? Remember how many times Ferrari notched up 1-2s with Schumi & Rubens, or Patrese dutifully following Mansell home in '92?

I think Webber's getting a bit of an unfair go in this thread at the moment - he led most of 2010, and had the title nicked from under his nose at the last gasp, and this season he's been comprehensively mullered by Winfinger, who seems to have found his sweet spot in terms of confidence married to ability.

Firstly, maybe it wasn't Vettel who was brilliant, maybe Webber was awful.

Secondly in 2010, that Red Bull was the best car, and Vettel had the majority of the car's bad reliability problems, which is why Webber was leading.

 

[Il_leone]

I think no. If Ferrari had been the dominant car, Massa still would have been much slower than Alonso, and he´d be nowhere

Good point. It´s often said that Alonso outdrove the Ferrari. Who´s to say that Vettel didn´t do the same for the RB?

People have failed to consider this

At Ferrari its obvious Alonso is NO 1
At Red Bull apart from Silverstone there is no No 1 and No 2.. Webber gave a journalist a piece of his mind when asked if he was no 2 to Vettel

So at Ferrari you'd expect Alonso to perform significantly better than Massa if he is No 1

Given Webber and Vettel were close last year and in 2009 you'd expect the same this year

its difficult to say if Vettel outdrove the RB7 because the only real races where Red Bull surprised everyone was Spa and Monza where they struggle because lack of power from the engines because most of the time he wins leading into the first corner

a difference of 5 wins in the best car between the two is still an almighty thrashing. Webber did not given get 2nd in the championship which should have comfortably been his

 

[Il_leone]

Firstly, maybe it wasn't Vettel who was brilliant, maybe Webber was awful.

Secondly in 2010, that Red Bull was the best car, and Vettel had the majority of the car's bad reliability problems, which is why Webber was leading.

Agree - Vettel did have reliability woes along with some real amateurish errors and probably did not deserve to win. This year Vettel has cut out the amateurish mistakes except for Canada but there was no gravel trap to punish him

From race 1 when Vettel was nearly a second quicker than Webber..it seems to have lay down a marker which Webber had no response to