Current Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton MBE

A place to put all the posts from all the other threads primarily but love him or hate him, and even for the indifferent amongst us this is the place to discuss the marmite that is Lewis Hamilton, to learn a thing or two about his rise, talk about those controversial, genius or mad moments and something that i am bemused by, the recent articles that suggest something quite different to my perception of what's going on. Any experiences of meeting LH?

Brundle had to write a Lewis Hamilton article recently and in my tweets (which were probably ignored) I asked him to talk about LH the driver not LH the personality. It seems that you can't have one without the other.

So as a starter for ten, here is a fairly recent LH article. Posts should not be limited to this link but it can get some discussion going. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13755883.stm

The only banned topic as it is clearly ridiculous involves these four things "Glock" "2008" "Brazil" "conspiracy"

 

[teabagyokel]

It'd be great to see Hamilton vs Raikkonen battle in the wet part 2. I think the Bus Stop is more difficult to involuntarily short cut this year too!

It might be interesting to see if Raikkonen is allowed to get away with his lap 1 trip around the outside of La Source; he'd have got past Button at the top of the hill last year had his team-mate not caused a Safety Car by mullering through half the field.

Let's see what'll happen, eh?

 

[Mephistopheles]

Lewywo4 and F1ang-o

I'm sorry but that decision in 2008 was completely legal and above board and I have given examples on this forum where exactly the same circumstance have occurred in the past where the driver involved has been penalized for doing exactly what Lewis did.

In fact Lewis was penalized for doing a very similar thing in Magny Cours earlier in that same season..

I am just flabbergasted that people can't, or just don't want to acknowledge that there was nothing untoward about the penalty handed out...

I have evidence to back up what I say is true, and you have nothing to prove me or the stewards wrong except that it was Lewis who got penalized and it rankles your feathers..

 

[RasputinLives]

*braces for impact*

 

[Mephistopheles]

I'm being serious this argument always crops up, and yet it is a crock....

Look up Alonso, Klein Suzuka 2005 Alonso was deemed to have gained an advantage by cutting the final chicane and even though he gave the place back immediately he then retook the place at the next corner and in so doing maintained that advantage just like Lewis did, and was penalized for it and rightly so, just like Lewis was in Spa 2008.

There is no difference between the two incidents and the only difference in the penalies was that it was too late in the race for Lewis to give the place back again and so was given a time penalty as laid down by the rules.

The fact that Kimi crashed out on the next lap makes no difference to the application of the rule.

There was no retrospective rule applied as some claim, the rule was already there, but was clarified because of all the moaning that went on...

And still is going on by the look of it, even by Lewis himself...

 

[Hamberg]

Wasn't Alonso told to give the place back in the race by race control? In which case the situations aren't the same are they because McLaren were told Hamilton had done enough by race control. If rules need to be clarified after an incident then they aren't clear in the first place are they.

They are similar but the nature of the 'advantage' and subsequent penalties and information supplied by race control are very different.

Alonso gave the place back and immediately got into Klein's slipstream which is why he gained an advantage. Hamilton lifted by 6kph and outbreaked Kimi at the hairpin to get that place back (advantage gained by Hamilton's driving style not momentum putting him in that position following the chicane cut).

 

[Lewywo4]

Wasn't Alonso told to give the place back in the race by race control? In which case the situations aren't the same are they because McLaren were told Hamilton had done enough by race control. If rules need to be clarified after an incident then they aren't clear in the first place are they..

An excellent point, unfortunately overlooked by many..

 

[Lewywo4]

Lewywo4 and F1ang-o

I'm sorry but that decision in 2008 was completely legal and above board and I have given examples on this forum where exactly the same circumstance have occurred in the past where the driver involved has been penalized for doing exactly what Lewis did.

Maybe Lewis should have counted to..10..before getting back on the throttle, after giving the position back to Kimi. This may have prevented Max Mosley's permanent advisor to the FIA race stewards, Alan Donnelly a former lobbyist for Ferrari's road car division, from making such a horrid decision.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Alonso gave the place back and immediately got into Klein's slipstream which is why he gained an advantage. Hamilton lifted by 6kph and outbreaked Kimi at the hairpin to get that place back (advantage gained by Hamilton's driving style not momentum putting him in that position following the chicane cut).

Hamilton lifted by 6 Kph that is 3.7 miles per hour which is slower then the average human being walks, Hamilton then ducked right under Kimi rear wing (Not only in the slipstream but in the sweet part of the slipstream to boot.) going from the outside of the track and then diving to the inside of the track and in doing so blocking the corner from Kimi.

Hamilton gained an advantage by cutting the chicane and not only did he not give that advantage back he actually increased that advantage by giving himself track position for the next corner.

This is simple stuff, It ain't difficult to understand why, the penalty was given....

But it is was obvious even before I challenged the perspective of some of Lewis's fans and Lewis himself, it was going to be like banging my head against a brick wall..

 

[Mephistopheles]

Maybe Lewis should have counted to..10..before getting back on the throttle, after giving the position back to Kimi. This may have prevented Max Mosley's permanent advisor to the FIA race stewards, Alan Donnelly a former lobbyist for Ferrari's road car division, from making such a horrid decision.

Yeah because it's bound to be a conspiracy theory when Lewis is involved, isn't it, anything the FIA his team and Ferrari can do to stop him winning, eh...

 

[cider_and_toast]

5 years is an awful long time to still be giving a toss about Spa 08. It's gone, it happened that's that.

And Geoff Hurst's second goal did cross the line, cos the Russian linesman said so !!

 

[Mephistopheles]

Yeah it is isn't it, but I didn't bring up, Lewis Hamilton did....

 

[Hamberg]

But it is was obvious even before I challenged the perspective of some of Lewis's fans and Lewis himself, it was going to be like banging my head against a brick wall..

Similarly it's obvious the anti Hamilton brigade, apologies 'neutrals' as you like to call yourselves have selective memories. You're welcome to ignore the race control advice given by.... Race control. On both occasions.

 

[cider_and_toast]

What are the brigade who "don't give two ****s about Lewis Hamilton but do want to watch ultra competative racing by highly skilled and talented drivers at the top of their games in technically outstanding cars" called ?? I forgot ??

 

[Hamberg]

What are the brigade who "don't give two ****s about Lewis Hamilton but do want to watch ultra competative racing by highly skilled and talented drivers at the top of their games in technically outstanding cars" called ?? I forgot ??

Most of CTA. 2 or 3 heavily pro and anti on both sides as far as I can tell.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I am not anti Hamilton but I am pro truth, and the truth as I see it (And in this case as the FIA sees it,) whoever the driver may be.

But I am anti blinkeredness and the, I will defend my fav driver no matter what brigade, if a drivers does something wrong or makes a mistake, then admit it, it ain't being disloyal to do so, it's just being honest.....

 

[RasputinLives]

Ermmmm.....how about them cubs?

I like the idea that F1 fans hang around in different gangs though. I get the feeling it'd be more West side story than Goodfellas though.

On topic I bet Lewis is still shaking his head in disbelief over the pole in Spa. Brilliant example of Merc/Lewis pulling off text book wet weather quali tactics. Last over the line gets pole.

Very simmilar to Hulkenbergs pole in Brazil.

 

[Quintessentially]

There was an element of luck involved but I don't think there was any luck in the way Mercedes planned to get both their drivers across the line. It's the kind of situation that would've almost certainly been mismanaged at McLaren for various reasons and an unprecedented 4 poles in a row for Lewis say it all really.

 

[Hamberg]

I am not anti Hamilton

If you say so. You wanna keep throwing the blinkered Hamilton fan argument then go for it. In this case it shows a complete lack of ability to debate (and total arrogance). Especially when twice you ignore a fair point.

You said the rule was there and the precedence was set yet fail to comment on race control (who also believed Hamilton had done nothing wrong) telling McLaren he'd done enough but telling Alonso to give the place back. Difference. Big difference.

Btw the FIA who agree with you rejected the appeal because it was inadmissable. They didn't reject based on the evidence presented or correct application of the rule. I'm assuming you're talking about this and not the actual race stewards.

The clarification was issued after Spa to say wait one corner before taking the place, again not in the rules it's how you interpret them. Mark Webber said following the clarification "it is pretty clear for people to probably not attack immediately again, which wasn't mega, mega clear in the past." Fairly sure Webber was in F1 over in Alonso/Klein incident yet he wasn't clear...

You can't see why being told when youve an opportunity to rectify it that youve acted correctly, then having an ambiguous rule applied that needed clarifying for all the drivers, would upset a driver who thought he had won his first race at Spa and was fighting for his first WDC?

It was not black and white and that's the frustration.

 

[FB]

Lewis thinks he won the race, the record books show he didn't regardless of the circumstances and argument both for and against. We won't get anywhere if all we can do is argue about the past will we and this really has been done to death.

 

[KekeTheKing]

All I know is that anyone who watched Spa 2008 knows that Lewis Hamilton crossed the finish line first, and the official winner was basically nowhere close to a race win all day. And quite frankly, I would expect anyone crossing the line first that day to forever consider himself victorious.

And the bottom line is that the FIA had to retrospectively amend the rules to cover the situation they penalized Hamilton for, which is tantamount to an admission that they improperly penalized him originally. At Belgium 2008, the rules stated that once you handed the position back, you were clear. After Belgium 2008 they require you to hand the place back, and then wait one corner before taking it back again.