Current Red Bull Racing

Discussion in 'Teams' started by FB, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. sobriety

    sobriety Pole Sitter

    Unless Honda have finally hit the **** it button and are actually upgrading/pushing the limits to try to improve as well as (hopefully) running mule cars. So its more of a case of each distinct failure results in them replacing everything with the newest iteration, rather than replacing parts piecemeal to try to stay under the limits.
     
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  3. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Dr. Marko is being quoted telling Pierre Gasly that he has to perform or he is out. Does this make any sense to anyone, assuming that the man is not misrepresented on content of the quote? Eyebrow rising motivational speech of this kind to me might actually do more damage than intended. I have very little doubt that Gasly is up to date how RBR operates, and whole remainder, as quoted, seems rather redundant. Having said that, I've never considered Helmut as a motivational speaker, despite his straightforward talk. Maybe "dark forces" or "hidden state" are trying to shake up this young man just to ensure Max stays No. 1 in the team. Similar stuff is playing against Vettel. Number of negative articles and groundless attacks in media over winter break seems to me over the top.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  4. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    Marko is not a fan of Gasly on a personal level. He was exceptionally angry at him going to the media a few years back saying Kyvat was out for Monza and he was in. He was so angry they kept Kvyat on. They might have got over that had Gasly not repeated the exact same mistake a year later! He's still in the Red Bull system because they basically have no one else at the moment. So if Marko gets a chance he will ditch him.

    Having said that the next in line is Albon who Marko has publicly come out and said is not good enough before rather embarrassingly having to do a u turn and beg him back into the junior programme.
     
  5. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    well 1st of all helmut marko is the reason they had so many big problems because he has no patience & is trigger happy, as kyvat couldve been good if they decided they were going to destroy his self confidence over 12 month period with the various things where they singled him out, really Hartley shouldn't have got a seat, Sainz got sick of waiting, Buemi & Vergne should've been kept. how Buemi didnt end up in senior team is a travesty. only good thing that came of it was that they were forced to give albon a chance which they wouldnt have otherwise

    if im honest I think max will crush him, because I said when he was appointed on merit if it wasnt for the drought for red bull academy, In F2 as 4th year veteran he only just beat a 1st yr rookie teammate (giovinazzi) who effectly gave him a 2 race head start. he wouldnt be there based on last season as other 19 races were average. but Bahrain & Hungary qualifying got him the job
     
  6. Titch

    Titch Champion Elect Premium Contributor

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    I see a big future for Helmut Marko with the Daily Express.
     
  7. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Helmut might not be a likable man, however once you get beyond gossip and perception lines, sticking to facts, he is actually accomplished individual. I am not holding anything against him, despite my disagreement with some of his management approaches. If I may, on lighter side, him and Niki, both Austrians, occasionally form a comedy duo with their battles of old-timers, just for our pleasure when racing gets boring.
     
  8. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Marko is very similar to Briatore in terms of not really giving any quarter of breathing space to the No 2 drivers in the team.. Ron Dennis was the same with Michael Andretti who thought he did a great job qualifying 6th but Ron thought that was :censored:.

    Yes they expect high standards but if the driver is not getting a fair chance its hardly encouraging okay Andretti part of it was his own fault. Gasly is clearly not Marko's favourite but then again Red Bull had a chance to promote Sainz but they were scared things would blow up between him and Verstappen . Now they expect Gasly to keep Verstappen on his toes. They can't have it both ways

    The Red Bull young driver academy has dried up because Marko burned through a lot of them before they were settled enough to be at the sharp end . The choice and subsequent management of Hartley and then reinstating Kyvat highlights their problem
     
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  9. vintly

    vintly Mostly bacon Premium Contributor

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    Red Bull have Verstappen, the most talented driver of his generation. Alongside him they need manageable, dependable point-scorers. I see no problems here.
     
  10. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Verstappen reminds me of Mansell. Diving into critical spaces and depending on other drivers to move over and avoiding clash. Aggressiveness is part of racing driver's psyche, I get that, but there are limits to it. So far FiA let him go over a few times, and I am hoping they will be more on their game, impartial. I know they are aware how Verstappen boosted series attractiveness, new fans applauding when he takes someone out or pushes off the track, or making a rival to spin, however we are still having some laws on books, and those weren't burnt in campfire on the beach. FiA, yes, I am talking to you, please do your job.
     
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  11. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    Most talented driver of his generation is a big label for someone who has won the grand total of naff all so far.
     
  12. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    I remember when Perez, I think. used this tactic very successfully at Monaco to push drivers out of the way; then he came across Raikonnen....
     
  13. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Sometimes rule book fails to compensate for, and offset even most obvious bias in race stewards booth. I do recall one or two race situations when Verstappen should have yielded, yet instead he closed the gap and put a rival into a difficult position. Not much surprise that instead suffering some pain afterwards, all what I heard from media and fans was, the rival should have waited a turn or two, so they blamed him, forgetting that this is a race where time fractions count, not some Sunday promenade. To add insult to the injury, the same stewards issued demerit points to the guy whose race got screwed up by the hothead. Unfortunately in F1 not all is defined that well as in US football. Some areas FiA has over-regulated, and in others let some people badly down.

    I am not that bias against young Dutchman, but my views are supported by crowd darlings. If you doubt me, Ricciardo when he was hit said on radio, who was that - fu***g looser, idiot. Alonso - this guy is dangerous (when he marginally avoided collision). Hamilton - he (Max) is nuts, etc. Vettel was actually most polite holding his views in check. (Max is young and needs to settle down.)

    Similarity with Mansell I see when recalling a race from long time ago in a city (I think it was Detroit) when Mansell abused his brakes through aggressive diving, later lost grip, and hit Fittipaldi, who said afterwards about the incident the same as I described earlier on. Diving into turns out of control, counting on others to avoid him, and then when all fails, Nigel used my car - said Fittipaldi - as brakes. Emerson was really pi**ed. He said then much more, I just don't recall all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  14. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    vintly I think those words would have looked so stupid after 6 races last season when Verstappen crashed into everything

    Until he can prove he is a consistent race winner I reserve judgement because perhaps Lando Norris might be the best driver of his generation and upset Max.

    People said Ricciardo was thrashed last season but it certainly looked like he was going to be challenging Vettel and Hamilton more than Verstappen did

    . There are shades of Mansell in Verstappen in having speed and aggression but not a lot of finesse and consistency at the moment to be considered world champion material
     
  15. vintly

    vintly Mostly bacon Premium Contributor

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    That was the short-sighted view that most people seemed to arrive at: 'He's impetuous, he'll cause dangerous accidents, he'll end up killing someone, something must be done!'

    Something was done, and he has calmed down. Age and maturity are coming into play - unsurprisingly. Norris may be better than him but I doubt it. Wanna bet?
     
  16. Angel

    Angel Pole Sitter Supporter

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    Max has calmed down a little, but he's still impetuous and a sulky little boy at times, just as Ocon. If Gasly starts to match or beat him I think he's going to get even worse. Whether Gasly can beat him is a whole other thing.
     
  17. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    vintly Its only because his name is Max Verstappen that he has lasted that long at Red Bull compare that to Kyvat who scored a brilliant podium in China and then the next race his team did not back him one bit for crashing in Russia and subsequently got dropped

    Max needs to develop to the next level of his career which is to be a consistent race winner before he can be seriously be considered a world title contender

    As for his driving style , I thought he got off lightly for shoving Kimi into the pitlane at Suzuka. Verstappen is one accident away from seriously being labelled too dangerous for F1
     
  18. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    i like verstappen he exiting & for good or bad. when he's on the track. something good is around the corner. i genuinely believe it will be when not if he is world champion. but the 1st 6 races of 2018 were bad & even i was having my doubts at his temprement & i think something was said post monaco because his risk nature did get reined in. look at Austria backed out on the 1st lap & with some luck won the race

    he had a great spell where post summer break he was only off the podium twice. also we cant forget what a great achievement it was for verstappen to beat bottas in much better mercedes that won 11 races + both drivers & constructors titles. if the season started post monaco

    Hamilton - 298
    Vettel - 224
    Verstappen - 214
    Raikkonen - 191
    Bottas - 179
    Riccardo - 98
     
  19. gethinceri

    gethinceri Daniil Kvyat Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan. Contributor

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    ^^ "Kyvat who scored a brilliant podium in China"
    Loads more of that to come this season from the young Russian superstar.
     
  20. vintly

    vintly Mostly bacon Premium Contributor

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    It's because of his potential, not his name. He's shown he can get the most out of a car, so when he's got a car that can consistently win, he will. Some will always think of him as dangerous. He certainly cuts it fine and perhaps strays over the line at times. Lots of drivers have done that over the years.

    I watched Max repeatedly block Kimi up the main straight at his maiden win in Barcelona. It was a sublime piece of driving from someone so young, and in the Red Bull for the first time. It was simply incredible really. He was vilified for it, and of course some of that was justified. Hence a new ruling came into play that we all know about. But no one crashed in this 17-lap exchange of wits, guile and balls.

    Except Hamilton and Rosberg on lap 1. Oh yes. That wasn't very clever was it? It was actually much more dangerous than anything Max did. Now, imagine the situation reversed. Verstappen causes a crash on lap 1 and takes himself and someone else out. Outrage. Ban him. Awful driving. He'll kill someone etc etc etc. And then imagine Hammy or Rosberg trying to hold off Kimi for 17 laps up the main straight. Do you think either of them would have achieved it, if they had been as underpowered to Kimi as Max was in his Red Bull? I'm not sure they would have managed it.

    Max will pay the price when he oversteps the line, but I'm betting he won't be the most dangerous driver this year. Let's see. As for Kvyat, I like him and hope he excels, but he's no match for Max quite yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    BradMan likes this.
  21. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    I'm talking about the way Verstappen forced Kimi off at Suzuka last year .. really not on

    I think a lot of people were questioning after 6 races last year if Verstappen was the real deal or seriously overhyped
     

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