Poll Who thinks that the Hamilton grid penalty is not the right grid penalty?

[KekeTheKing]

technical infringement is automatic exclusion

You know the FIA does whatever they want, however they want. They could have just brought the car back to the pits, accepted McLaren's claim, and gone on with the meeting in the correct running order.

 

[F1ang-o]

@Keke TheKing
That is reason I voted for LH time to be left as it was.
He did nothing wrong, & his time would still have been quickest with a good margin, if the team had fueled his car correctly..
IMHO McLaren should have been punished, WCC points taken from them? The punishment should fit the crime/mistake.

LH is not popular in Spain, he had to endure some awful crowd hatred after the rift with FA.
To make him stop his car in front of all those people was dreadful
I just knew, straight away something awful was going follow.

He gives it his all to get pole, then through no fault of his own he is on the back row, with cars in front of him with plenty of new tyres. He made the best of a bad day...But IMHO it was not a fair or correct decision.

 

[Wombcat]

You know the FIA does whatever they want, however they want. They could have just brought the car back to the pits, accepted McLaren's claim, and gone on with the meeting in the correct running order.

If they did that, soon it would be become common practice to underfuel and there'd be cars parked all over the circuit after Q3 ended.
McLaren knew very well what was going on, and they should have brought him in.

 

[Quintessentially]

If this was a genuine refuelling mistake why did McLaren ask Hamilton to stop on track, unless he didn't have enough fuel to get back? Seems to me someone was too quick to press the panic button when they could've told Lewis to simply drive to the pits to the heat out of the situation. It would've looked more credible had they gone to the stewards after with less than the litre of fuel required rather than trying to save fuel in full view of the public at a place where Hamilton isn't particularly popular (local steward would've almost certainly pushed for the severest of penalties. Fuel had very little bearing on Hamilton's laptime and I'm sure FIA secretly accepted this in the face of overwhelming evidence. The whole thing could've been managed quietly without all the drama and by stopping the car in front of everyone, they effectively invited tough action. Bad management is what brought that heavy penalty and Charlie would've been irked by the fact that McLaren have done this before, whether or not this should've been factored into the stewards' decision.

 

[Incubus]

This is getting a tad boring now... a quick look at the stewards appointed by the FIA for the race on their official website reveals there is no spaniard among them. A poster on another forum who attended the Grand Prix week-end and who is a self-vonfessed rabid McLaren fan posted on that forum she did not witness the slightest hint of any anti-Hamilton feeling at the track.
2007 was five years ago you know?
It really is about time we should move on from all that.

 

[Wombcat]

It would've looked more credible had they gone to the stewards after with less than the litre of fuel required

Had they done that, Hamilton likely would have been disqualified from the entire event. No fuel sample = illegal fuel = disqualification.

What McLaren should have done is calling Hamilton in the moment they realised he didn't have enough fuel to make a fast lap and return to pits. This would have been during his outlap or fast lap. He wouldn't have set his (illegal) fastest lap then and started from 5th(?).

 

[Brogan]

Spot on Wombcat.

The rules are quite clear on both offences so McLaren opted for the less severe one.

They still screwed up though as Hamilton should never have been in that position in the first place.

 

[jez101]

I think in the end, the penalty given out was the only fair one. No penalty and as Wombcat says, every car would be fuelled to run out at T1 on the in lap. 1 lap of fuel might not sound like much, but that would be worth at least 1/10th .

A five place drop, the field is so close that you would have people working out whether they would start higher by going 1/10th quicker and taking a 5 place drop or by going 1/10th slower.

 

[jez101]

I've only just seen these quotes from Whitmarsh. Sounds like he made the decision to complete the flying lap and stop on the in lap, expecting little or no penalty. The FIA sure put him straight on that.

"With hindsight I was wrong, but I don't think I or very many people anticipated that, as a consequence, we would be starting from the back of the grid," said Whitmarsh.

"With hindsight I could have called it a different way, and he could have just come in at the end of the out lap. But frankly I did not expect the penalty that he received."

Whitmarsh revealed that the team only became aware of the fuel situation once Hamilton was on his qualifying lap. "Part way through that last qualifying lap, the data indicated that there was not as much fuel on board as we thought," he said.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99615

 

[F1ang-o]

I don't think we would see much of it...if the teams got 25 points docked off their WCC points....That would be fair.
Why should the driver suffer.
Lewis was almost 6/10s faster, so there is no question of him trying to gain an advantage.

 

[Josh]

(local steward would've almost certainly pushed for the severest of penalties.

The stewards were a Dane, a German and a Czech so no local Spaniard who pushed for the severest of penalties

Why should the driver suffer.

Because the driver is part of the team! If a driver makes a mistake and is punished for it or has to retire the team is punished (less WCC points) so why should it not be the other way around?

 

[Wombcat]

I don't think we would see much of it...if the teams got 25 points docked off their WCC points....That would be fair.
Why should the driver suffer.

Because he is part of the team and he benefits from the underfueling.

Lewis was almost 6/10s faster, so there is no question of him trying to gain an advantage.

in this case. So you suggest that if a team underfuels the stewards should evaluate how much time he gained and then put an appropriate penalty, also taking into consideration how much he was ahead of the others?

 

[Brogan]

I've only just seen these quotes from Whitmarsh. Sounds like he made the decision to complete the flying lap and stop on the in lap, expecting little or no penalty. The FIA sure put him straight on that

I posted about that in the McLaren thread: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/mclaren.3217/page-45#post-129093

The lack of knowledge of the rules is troubling...

 

[Kewee]

I posted about that in the McLaren thread: http://cliptheapex.com/threads/mclaren.3217/page-45#post-129093

The lack of knowledge of the rules is troubling...

Especially considering it was McLarens infringement of the very same rule in Canada 2010 that led to a further clarification and more severe penalties should teams break this rule in the future. McLaren seem to be bumbling from one cock up to another on all levels at present. The drivers really are being let down which is a shame.

 

[KekeTheKing]

soon it would be become common practice

I wonder.

And when's the last time anybody has gotten hauled up on a fuel irregularity anyway?

 

[The Artist.....]

Buemi... He was thrown out of qualifying last year as his fuel sample did not match one that had been given earlier. The fuel was not illegal, but it did not match the sample given previously.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/7/12343.html

 

[KekeTheKing]

Thanks The Artist..... How about the last time anybody came in with less than a liter?

 

[The Artist.....]

KekeTheKing. As far as I know it's never happened.... A few cars have had to scrape around at the bottom of the tank, but I'm not sure any car has failed to produce a sample!

 

[Incubus]

But Hamilton wasn't penalised for the amount of fuel in his tank was he? He was penalised for failing to rejoin the track for a case other than force majeure. And I don't remember that happening to anyone since the rule was brought into effect.

 

[RasputinLives]

I don't remember anyone being thrown out for not having enough fuel. I remember BAR being thrown out for having too much fuel with their sneaky hidden fuel tank.