What are we going to do about Felipe?

[F1Yorkshire]

Just had a thought. If Perez and Vettel are both going to Ferrari where is Alonso going to be in 2014? He has already said he will end his career there so is next years season Alonso's last?

 

[Olivier]

I could be wrong but I think he has a contract until 2016 ...

 

[sushifiesta]

Alonso is pretty much glued to his Ferrari seat until he decides he doesn't want to play F1 any more, and like Olivier says his contract is until the end of 2016.

I think taking the other Ferrari seat is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot for anyone who has his eyes on winning the world championship in the next five years. It would have to be some very special, and probably Italian, to go in to Ferrari and not only beat Alonso but convert the whole team and the Tifosi to his cause as well.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

So is Vettel really going to go play the number 2 driver?

 

[sushifiesta]

If he went to Ferrari I think he'd have to in the end. Maybe I'm wrong, but look at the history of Alonso's team mates. Only Hamilton you can say has survived, and they have a history of parity between team-mates, Hamilton was (is?) a member of the 'famliy', British, spy-gate etc. etc. etc. Perhaps most importantly, Ron Dennis' ego is probably one of the few that can match up to Alonso's.

Alonso gets his own way and if he doesn't things get nasty, fast. I think Vettel is too nice to be able to dethrone Alonso in a team that is fully behind him. Fernando is fast, selfish and a master of playing the F1 game outside the cockpit.

 

[Incubus]

I think it's a lot simpler than that. Alonso is hero and master at Ferrari and Italy. That's not because they think he's a jolly good fellow, that's because he does the job on the track.
Should someone come to Ferrari and turn out to be faster than him Alonso would be yestefday's man in the blink of an eye. That's what happened to Massa and that's how it happens at Ferrari and in Italy.

 

[F1 Shift.net]

After this season, it's very clear that Vettel would be #2 at Ferrari. Like Alonso said "only Hamilton is able to win the championship without having the best car." Alonso is not phased by Vettel's two championships, nor should he be, especially if they are in the same car.

 

[F1 Shift.net]

Alonso gets his own way and if he doesn't things get nasty, fast. I think Vettel is too nice to be able to dethrone Alonso in a team that is fully behind him. Fernando is fast, selfish and a master of playing the F1 game outside the cockpit.

which is exactly what you need to be an F1 legend. I hate to mention what-ifs, but at the end of this season, we could have been talking about Alonso earning his 5th championship ('05, '06' '07*, '10*, and '12). The greats are nasty and ruthless on the track and even nastier and ruthless off it.

*championships that didn't happen but should have.

That being said, if Alonso gets a 3rd title, I'm sure he'll be happy and still go down as one of the best ever.

 

[Olivier]

Tifosis were not too fond of Alonso at the beginning, there are factions that support him as long as he drives a Ferrari but can't stand his persona. If (when?) Vettels goes to Ferrari, I think it's going to be a matter of deciding who goes faster. A little bit like Prost vs Mansell in the early 90s.

 

[sushifiesta]

Should someone come to Ferrari and turn out to be faster than him Alonso would be yestefday's man

Probably true, but Alonso is fast as it is and beating him in what is effectively his car and his team would be a mammoth task, and outright speed by itself would not be enough to do it in my opinion. That's where team politics etc. come in to play.

which is exactly what you need to be an F1 legend

Exactly. Nothing I said about Alonso was meant to slate him, he's ruthless in his desire to win.

 

[Incubus]

A little bit like Prost vs Mansell in the early 90s.

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It was a bit different though. Prost was initially hated in Italy (obviously that changed when he drove for them) and that went back to the 1983 italian GP. In one of their most ill-judged moves Renault Sport assigned him a team of... bodyguards (!) which were constantly shadowing him whether he wanted them around or not. Not a good move from Renault,

 

[teabagyokel]

Incubus - Probably they were keeping him away from the directors' wives.

 

[F1 Shift.net]

Exactly. Nothing I said about Alonso was meant to slate him, he's ruthless in his desire to win.

I agreed, I was just building off your point.

 

[Bill Boddy]

By halfway through the 2009 season the TV commentators (including Jean Alesi), the press and the tifosi were calling for Raikkonen to be replaced by Alonso as quickly as possible. But if he stops delivering they will be just as quick to call for him to be replaced. The Italians go into sport to win, how they do it is immaterial.

 

[Brogan]

The Italians go into sport to win, how they do it is immaterial.

As evidenced by the football league...

 

[Kewee]

Alonso's reputation suffered during his year at McLaren, everyone would agree I think. It's worth considering what led to the blow up. Alonso, as the current World Champion, quite rightly expected to be given the very best opportunity to defend his title, instead he was treated as the equal to a rookie. I can't name one other world champion in the sports history, and I don't think anyone else will be able to also, that raced alongside a rookie that was treated as his equal, when trying to defend his title. No wonder he was gutted. And no Hamilton wasn't his equal. During the last half of the season when the team had turned on Alonso he outscored Hamilton and he certainly wouldn't have made the errors that Hamilton made which cost him the title. Alonso would have won the title had McLaren backed him, no doubt, and McLaren know that.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Good point Kewee about defending champions and how they have been treated compared with rookie team mates.
But which errors would those be that Hamilton made, that cost him the 2007 title? The one in China where his team, the team that had turned against his team mate, kept him out on tyres that had worn down to the canvas? Or the one in Brazil where his gearbox had a problem which put him near the back of the field?

Oops, sorry; this thread's about Felipe Massa isn't it, not Alonso, Hamilton or even Vettel. I think we're getting a little off topic.

 

[sushifiesta]

Anyway, to get this back on track a bit, my point was that whoever takes the number two seat either has to be satisfied to play second fiddle to Alonso or be absolutely convinced that he has the speed AND the political know how to beat Alonso. I think this limits us to drivers near the end of their career who would love to drive a Ferrari and maybe win a couple of races, and relative newcomers who either would view standing on the podium as a massive achievement or are willing to be patient enough to bide their time and refine their talent under Alonso's shadow until he leaves.

Without considering contracts, my top candidates would be: Massa, Webber, Kovalainen and Kobayashi. These are drivers who I feel have shown pace and would relish the chance of being behind the wheel of a prancing horse and picking up podiums, even if it meant being second best to Fernando.

The likes of Di Resta, Hulkenberg and Perez are more difficult to analyse. All have massive potential but all would have to think carefully about taking the second Ferrari seat and I feel they'd prefer to take either a Mercedes or McLaren seat (should one become available) at this stage in their careers.

 

[Kewee]

Chad Stewarthill......I think Alonso would have had the experience to make the tyre call himself if the team had been behind him of course.

 

[Kewee]

Back on track......Massa has just had two very strong results and there's a very good chance there'll be more to come so I wouldn't rule him out of his Ferrari seat next year.