Poll Was Hamilton right to not yield to Rosberg?

[racecub]

Just a point of note. Comparisons have been made concerning the team orders issued yesterday and the ones issued by Ross Brawn last year. Putting aside that I'm a Lewis supporter, I really don't think the two are comparable. Last year Merc were on for their best ever points haul, both drivers were fuel saving and neither driver was in line for the drivers championship. It was a sound call. This year Merc have practically wrapped up the constructors and both drivers are fiercely contesting the drivers championship. It was an unfair call. Merc have recognised this themselves , firstly Lauda saying it was unfair and Lewis was right to ignore it, and now Toto has said they must rethink how they go racing because the rules they set down at the beginning of the season are no longer fair or workable . It will be discussed over the summer with the suggestion that drivers may be in control of their own strategies. Can't say fairer than that!
http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115184

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

...we should all be thanking the Mercedes engineers for their efforts in rebuilding Lewis' car after it was virtually destroyed in the fire...

Hear hear

 

[chris1981]

in my view another difference between this year and last is this:
last year it was for the driver behind to hold position. I think its very different to this year and letting someone pass you. Same with massa earlier not moving over for bottas.
one thing saying don't pass - quite another to say move over. That's why i think vettel was wrong last year with multi 21, and Lewis and massa have been right this year.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Most, if not all, the posts on this thread have referred to Hamilton 'disobeying' or 'ignoring' a team order to let Rosberg past (presumably because that's the way the press have mostly portrayed it). Actually, that's not what happened anyway.

Firstly, the engineer said something like, "Nico's got another stop to make, don't hold him up".

Hamilton then didn't do anything to hold Rosberg up, other than drive his own race.

Then Rosberg, after his engineer had presumably told him that Hamilton was 'letting him through', said, "Why isn't he letting me through?" after which Hamilton's engineer said "Let Nico past this lap please".

To which lewis replied; "I'm not slowing down for Nico. If he gets close enough, he can pass me".

At no time did Rosberg get close enough.

 

[chris1981]

Sorry chad but there was a message to Lewis telling him to let nico through and when to do it.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Yep, clear as a bell on global TV. "Lewis you are to let Nico pass at the end of the start finish straight" or words very near to that.

It was remarked upon by the Sky team as they were confused as to when that message was issued because Hamilton certainly didn't let him by on the lap they heard the message. That was the last time that Rosberg was anywhere near close enough to get by and after that Hamilton pulled away at a respectable pace.

 

[Brogan]

I posted this back on page 2 but for those who didn't hear, here it is again.

http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/9396793/lewis-and-nico's-radio-exchanges

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

chris1981 do you mean the bit in my post where I say Hamilton's engineer said "Let Nico past this lap please"?

I gave Hamilton's reply to that: "If he gets close enough" said Lewis - but Nico didn't, which suggests that if he had, Lewis would not have fought an overtake.

 

[Mezzer]

I voted that he was right, funnily enough. My rationale is simple, Rosberg was not able to catch up to him. Why in hell would he slow down? Hamilton said that he wouldn't block him if he caught him, and I think that's fair enough and I'm enough of a fan of the sport to have thought it was the right thing to do if the tables had been reversed. Like none of us we don't know what was said in the post-race discussion, but I'd hope Hamilton was more on the offence, i.e. "WTF were you thinking??", rather than having his cap in his hand about why he didn't slow down. Frankly I think the request was ridiculous and in the cold light of day Merc should be embarrassed about it, as Lauda seemed to indicate.

 

[Il_leone]

it was a ridiculous call

 

[teabagyokel]

Any comparisons to Malaysia in 2013 or anything else since the late 1980s are false.

A team order at Mercedes or Red Bull in 2013 is different, although the RBR orders were similar because they were roundly ignored.

It is different because Formula One is a team sport. Unless, of course, it is a two-car championship, at which point the whole working for the team thing becomes facile. L'equipe? C'est moi!

Both know they're not going to get sacked for 2014, and both know that if they get sacked at the end of the year they'd rather be plonking a number 1 on someone else's car than continue to be employed as a loser.

 

[chris1981]

Sorry Chad Stewarthill I was focusing on the part:
"Most, if not all, the posts on this thread have referred to Hamilton 'disobeying' or 'ignoring' a team order to let Rosberg past (presumably because that's the way the press have mostly portrayed it). Actually, that's not what happened anyway".

On re-reading though we both on same page

 

[Shogun]

But on the other hand: right now Mercedes doesn't need Hamilton to become WCC or WDC, Hamilton does need Mercedes to become WDC.

Isnt that what I said? In some ways, I feel like thats the problem. Lewis is all about Lewis and I dont feel that he really cares if he drives for Meredes-AMG or not because, like I said, if Merc decides to part ways for him, theres plenty of other teams that would be more than happy to have him drive their car and Im sure McLaren would welcome him back with open arms.
I personally hope that doesnt happen because with the move to Honda engines next year, McLaren will be a team that I will start cheering for and I really dont want to see Lewis become their #1 driver.

 

[P1]

Isnt that what I said? In some ways, I feel like thats the problem. Lewis is all about Lewis and I dont feel that he really cares if he drives for Meredes-AMG or not because, like I said, if Merc decides to part ways for him, theres plenty of other teams that would be more than happy to have him drive their car and Im sure McLaren would welcome him back with open arms.
I personally hope that doesnt happen because with the move to Honda engines next year, McLaren will be a team that I will start cheering for and I really dont want to see Lewis become their #1 driver.

No championship winning driver cares who they drive for. Maybe Schumacher was the exception. Senna, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton - all these guys drive where they have the best chance of winning. They're racers. If someone would rather drive a particular brand than win a championship, then I say that person doesn't want to win.

 

[GermanF1]

F1Yorkshire The forums in Germany are more or less 50/50. If there are 50 percent in a German forum on Lewis's side, we know what that means, huh?

 

[Brogan]

They're Hamilton fans?

 

[Wombcat]

Shogun, my point was that Hamilton wants to be WDC, for that he needs to be in a Mercedes right now. He doesn't have the option to jump in a McLaren right now (obviously he doesn't have that option anyway, because he's undercontract by Mercedes, but if he had that option, he wouldn't take it, because it would mean he could say "byebye" to his chances of a WDC. So to stay in the race he needs that Mercedes will keep working for him).

 

[kultmagazin]

it was a ridiculous call

I agree. But, on the other hand, it's the team (Mercedes) that is paying you (Hamilton)

 

[Tuscan1969]

Multi faceted discussion:
1 you drive for the team they pay you so do what they say....
2 but they also pay you millions per year because you get 1 tenth of a second per lap that others do not
3 thus for a team to ask you not to slow your team mate down is sensible
4 but if he is so far behind that you have to slow noticeably that does not make sense
5 unless they believe he is in a better position to win than you ...
6 but if they have repeatedly told you that the drivers are free to race you cannot call telling one driver to slow down allowing him to race. And you cannot square that circle unless and until one driver has no chance of winning the WDC
7 clearly at the moment Both have a chance and so the Merc call seems to be shortsighted
8 but part of that judgement depends on who made the call....was it one pit crew asking another because of strategy differences or was it Totto deciding it because the two pit crews would not agree or was it a pre race agreement that both would be allowed to pass the other of on different strategies....
9 unless and until we know all of the above it's all supposition on our parts.....
10 BUT since both Lauda and Wolff have said the team orders need to be looked at again it's apparent that they see some inconsistency or gap and need to clarify ....
My view is that if there was any breach of an agreement Lauda would have clearly said LH was wrong to disobey the orders ....he certainly seems to speak plainly about everything else ...so I imagine the situation was not covered or not clear enough....I.e he can pass if he is faster but he can't pass if he is too slow to get alongside.....

Either way I really hope in all the next races they just let them go at it hammer and tongs...no holds barred ( except for running your team mate off the road of course)

 

[Lewywo4]

. Like none of us we don't know what was said in the post-race discussion, but I'd hope Hamilton was more on the offence, i.e. "WTF were you thinking??", rather than having his cap in his hand about why he didn't slow down. Frankly I think the request was ridiculous and in the cold light of day Merc should be embarrassed about it, as Lauda seemed to indicate.

Mezzer....I hope as you said that Lewis is more on the offence during their post race meeting, which I'm sure that he will be, because that hat in hand crap surely isn't going to work. While logging on to CTA, I was thinking of your post about Hamilton with that cap in hand, which pissed me off so much, that while typing in my password, I put your in Name by mistake , but managed to calmn down and re-enter the correct word.

What I would like to know during these pre-race meeting's, who makes the decision regarding what tires are to be used during the course of a race? Lewis had 2 sets of fresh un-used soft tires availabe, but on his last pit stop is fitted with the slower medium tire, which at end of it's run can be easily chased down.

Looking at the Video posted by Tacitus #78, and Ted Kravitz asking would Rosberg have won the race, or 2nd place if Lewis didn't hold him up or let him go.......or else trying to say.....How did Lewis screw Nico? As Damon Hill during the intervew pointed out, if Hamilton had pitted earlier than Nico, and was placed on the softer tire, Lewis may have just won the race, to which Kravitz seemed to had sheepishly agreed.