Toyota withdraws from Formula One

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
we all have been wondering why a team with the financial means like toyota has not been able to score better then they have so far.

there is an interesting theory about this i would like to share with my fellow clippers.

the mother firm of toyota F1, toyota in japan, does not release their budgets for the coming year before november 15. this means that the team does not know before that date if they have any budget and if so, how high this budget is. which means they cannot negotiate with any potential drivers before that date.

but by that time, any potentially winning driver will be signed. so toyota is left with negotiating with drivers who are still on the market. but these are not the high potential drivers the team would need to score points.

also, this means the team will only know after november 15 if they will participate next year.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: Toyota

It's an interesting point on the drivers.
I know Trulli has been with them since 2004 but I don't know if that was a long term contract or renewed annually.

As for participation in the following year, Toyota have signed the contract which effectively commits them to the sport.
Of course they can withdraw at any time but the team must surely think that they're going to be competing.

With regards to the new car design, the designers are already employed and being paid so they can do what most (all?) of the other teams are doing which is to start on next year's car now.

Currently they are the "best of the rest", lying in 5th place behind this season's surprises like Brawn and Red Bull and the 2 stalwarts Ferrari and McLaren and well clear of the rest of the pack.
So although they're not fighting for the championship, they can't be too disappointed.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Re: Toyota

In the medieval ages, there was a belief that Jerusalem was at the physical centre of the Earth. This was proved not to be the case. However, there is much proof that on an F1 track, the average position of the two Toyotas will be the exact centre of the field, with those ahead of that position, which I shall call ? doing well, and those behind ? doing badly.

The consequences of the ? formula is if one Toyota is doing well, the other must not be. ie. Singapore - Glock 2nd, Trulli last; Japan - Trulli 2nd, Glock wall in quali.

However, the ? formula is actually, for complex reasons, intolerant to the number 1, hence Toyota can never win a race... (Thats how the ?-repellant principle worked in Bahrain)

Looking back over the last 4 or 5 years, prove me wrong...
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff member
Premium Contributor
Re: Toyota

I don't think Toyota would be doing too badly if they sign Kobyashi. 6th place in only his second race and lets be fair he's been exciting to watch as well.

Toyota are racing proof that cash dosn't always buy success. Consistantly they have spent the most money each season and have yet to see the top step. They even had the advantage of a full year of testing before turning a wheel in anger on the track. It's hard to put a finger on just why they haven't cracked it yet but then again, Jarno Trulli and Ralf Schumacher didn't help.

I hope they are back next year if only to see a full season of Kobyashi.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: Toyota

cider_and_toast said:
I hope they are back next year if only to see a full season of Kobyashi.
:thumbsup:

I particularly enjoyed the newest rookie overtaking and outdriving the WDC today LOL
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Re: Toyota

I particularly enjoyed the newest rookie overtaking and outdriving the WDC today
Overtaking and out driving the best overtaker in the business, if I recall Martin Brundle correctly. Don't commentators talk complete guff; Button has one race in Brazil where he puts in a good drive and overtakes a few other cars and all of a sudden he's an overtaking god - HE FINISHED FIFTH PEOPLE. Time for my darkened room again...
 

rufus_mcdufus

Champion Elect
Re: Toyota

I wondered where that 'best overtaker in the business' comment came from too!

As for Toyota - well we never expected the ex-Honda team to win this year considering the 'earth lemon' they had last year so anything's possible. I do think they've made a step forward this year and could well be closer to the front.
 

Enja

isn't dead.
Valued Member
Re: Toyota

cider_and_toast said:
I hope they are back next year if only to see a full season of Kobyashi.
Indeed. In two races he has already shown more gumption and race craft than Bourdais, Nakajima, Buemi, Alguesuari, Badoer [cough], Grosjean put together. Deserves a role next year.

Some interesting ideas floating around about Toyota, haven't really got the time to think it through but I'll make a more meaningful post later :snigger:
 
Re: Toyota

rufus_mcdufus said : I wondered where that 'best overtaker in the business' comment came from too!
In Brazil I think Brundle quoted that nearly half the overtakes of the season came from Button.

Not sure if I heard it right, or if it is true.

Had a quick look for the stats but couldn't find any broken down by driver.

the mother firm of toyota F1, toyota in japan, does not release their budgets for the coming year before november 15.
Typical large company, one part doesn't understand how another part works. What was Honda's excuse then?
 

RickD

Pole Sitter
Re: Toyota

FB said:
I particularly enjoyed the newest rookie overtaking and outdriving the WDC today
Overtaking and out driving the best overtaker in the business, if I recall Martin Brundle correctly. Don't commentators talk complete guff; Button has one race in Brazil where he puts in a good drive and overtakes a few other cars and all of a sudden he's an overtaking god - HE FINISHED FIFTH PEOPLE. Time for my darkened room again...
I'm not even going to bite at that bitter comment about the WDC.. :goodday:

Toyota's issues stem partly from their drivers (Trulli is a good qualifier, but awful in a race, so bad infact that he is figured into the other teams race calculations, Ralf was just rubbish), but mainly from the same problems Honda faced, and that is car design and management by commitee, it simply does not work and the sooner they realise this, the sooner they will gain ground on the front runners.
 
Re: Toyota

It has been rumoured for a while so it comes as no surprise.

Just like Honda it shows it doesn't matter how much money you throw at it you need the right design team and talented drivers.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
Re: Toyota

Never has so much been spent by so many for so little...

It's sad, and I am a little surprised. With all the money invested I thought they would try to ride it out. Considering how expensive it must have been to set up the Cologne facility in the first place; it wouldn't be easy to come sailing back into F1 again in 3-4 years' time.

I am glad in respect of the fact that Sauber/Qadbak should get on the grid now. It was ridiculous really that a startup operation like Protus should be approved ahead of an established team.

I've heard a lot of rumours linking Trulli with Protus, Mike Gascoyne being an obvious fan, and Timo Glock looks like he's on his way to Renault...so what now for Kamui Kobayashi?

And what about Japanese influence in F1? Gone the way of the French - even Bridgestone on their way out.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Re: Toyota

Seems pretty easy to see that F1 is just too darn expensive for all involved, therefore it needs to be cheaper for all to participate. In the case of the teams, they either need lower running costs or a higher cash flow. The former has been tried and vetoed. In the case of the tracks, it's often just not viable to hold a race as the income is too low and the fees are too high.

So where am I going with this? Well, it seems to me there is a common denominator in the form of one Bernie Ecclestone who perhaps doesn't need to cream off quite so much cash, could perhaps lower the race fees and make it economical for circuits to hold events without state funding and who could perhaps increase the revenue share going to the very people necessary to holding his spectacle, the teams.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff member
Re: Toyota

What a shame.

I always liked Toyota, they just never managed to really achieve anything.

I really hope another team gives Kobayashi a chance - he deserves one.


R.I.P Panasonic Toyota Racing.
 

bogaTYR

Points Scorer
Re: Toyota

fat_jez said:
Seems pretty easy to see that F1 is just too darn expensive for all involved, therefore it needs to be cheaper for all to participate. In the case of the teams, they either need lower running costs or a higher cash flow. The former has been tried and vetoed. In the case of the tracks, it's often just not viable to hold a race as the income is too low and the fees are too high.

So where am I going with this? Well, it seems to me there is a common denominator in the form of one Bernie Ecclestone who perhaps doesn't need to cream off quite so much cash, could perhaps lower the race fees and make it economical for circuits to hold events without state funding and who could perhaps increase the revenue share going to the very people necessary to holding his spectacle, the teams.
sorry, i don't agree.

i think its just not possible for a company to go through a financial crisis with massive sales declines, having to fire people and at the same time have 2 cars drive around all over the world with the drivers earning millions and the team costing a whole lot more.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Re: Toyota

bogaTYR said:
sorry, i don't agree.

i think its just not possible for a company to go through a financial crisis with massive sales declines, having to fire people and at the same time have 2 cars drive around all over the world with the drivers earning millions and the team costing a whole lot more.
I'm not just talking about Toyota though. We've seen Honda, Toyota, BMW and Bridgestone pull out. We've seen Donnington practically bankrupt themselves and Silverstone saying it's not worth them hosting an F1 race. Fuji have come along and said they don't want to host F1 events any more and I believe Hockenheim have said the same. F1 is simply too expensive for many people to get involved in and the lion's share of the money seems to go to Bernie and CVC.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Where the hell will Kobayashi go? =[ Bad times!

So its finally confirmed that underachieving rich boys are off to build cars (fair enough). Does this put Qadback-Sauber into the 2010 mix?
 
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