The Testing Ban Makes F1 Stale
- Thread starter teabagyokel
- Start date
DOF_power said:
You mean the late 80s, when they drove for Lotus, McLaren and Williams?
DOF_power said:
What does this even mean?
If it's what I think then it's a pretty blinkered viewpoint seeing as a large proportion of the pitlane either comes from or is based in Britain to some extent. As for the second part, have a wander around Silverstone of a race weekend and you'll be thoroughly disabused of that theory. Actually, drop into a Marshall post in Abu Dahbi (was it there or Bahrain) and ask them, I'm sure you'll get some fruity answers.
Muddytalker said:
Please explain the xenophobia thing.
English is not my first language and what I'm trying to point out is this:
a] F1 is a business, rarely, it at all is it a sport
b] it's a global business where Britain is a small part and the british views (and knowledge) are not shared by many
non brits witch make up most of the F1 audience
c] people watch it if the top most popular teams and drivers take the championships to the wire
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Final Warning, This thread will be locked if users continue to use inflammatory comments. Threats of fights and the use of language designed to provoke a response based on nationality will not be tolerated. Clip the Apex welcomes debate from supporters of all forms of motorsport where ever they or that may be. Please refresh yourselves of the Forum Rules. Any questions, please refer to myself, the other mods or Brogan.
Regards C_A_T
teabagyokel said:
They'd didn't really mention Lotus, McLaren and Williams from were I've watched, they'd say Renault, Honda and Marlboro most of the time, but generally they'd mention the drivers.
The McLaren in particular were know as the Marlboro cars/team or Marlboro Hondas.
The name McLaren only when the build the McLaren F1 super, that's what made people and fans take notice and get rid of the team Marlboro name.
In Germany till this season McLaren was called team Mercedes when thing went well and they'd mention the name McLaren when things went bad.
DOF_power said:
That's not unlike the Lotus types 76, 77 and 78 which most of the PR material at the time called "The John Player Special Mk 1s, Mk 2s and Mk 3s. The practice stopped for the Type 79 because most of the motoring press still used the Lotus Type number any way. Much to the annoyance of Colin Chapman.
DOF_power said:
That sounds merely like a peculiarity of your esteemed German TV hosts rather than a fundamental view entrenched within the sport's fans.
Back on topic, from Alonso's view, he's probably right. Who has as much fun when they are losing all the time? I know I don't. I appreciate and understand the view commonly held, also within me, that actually banning testing has been a good thing. But from Alonso's view, who is to say he is wrong?
A lot of people bemoan the fact that F1 is, quite arguably, stuck with mid-90s technology. Alonso is making a similar point, just in regards to his own team. I don't see the problem with his comments, even if I think he's wrong with regards to the F1 enterprise as a whole, I think it's improved in terms of entertainment and intrigue without testing days that casual fans care little about.
DOF_power said:
I'll agree that there is some international difference in coverage, however it is difficult to suggest that British garagistes had a minimal affect on Formula One, being as they essentially won all but one or two Drivers' Championships in the 80s and 90s (if you don't count Benetton, which seems fair to me.)
It is also true that every drivers championship since the 1960s and all constructors championships have been won by either Ferrari or a British-based team.
I can imagine that Germany thing is true, and I've heard too many James Allen commentaries to not understand the creeping influence of nationalism. However, I don't want to get nationalism into the picture.
I know people don't know who Sir Jack Brabham or Ken Tyrell are, and that is a pity, for I would rather these unsung heroes were held up on a pedastal as legends. Sadly, this is not true even amongst the casual supporters of Britain.
cider_and_toast said:
That's not unlike the Lotus types 76, 77 and 78 which most of the PR material at the time called "The John Player Special Mk 1s, Mk 2s and Mk 3s. The practice stopped for the Type 79 because most of the motoring press still used the Lotus Type number any way. Much to the annoyance of Colin Chapman.[/quote:2o54u2el]
That may have been the case in Britain, and Lotus were called Lotus outside of Britain to my knowledge as they build cars.
But others were called by their sponsor, engine manufacturer, both or were just ignored. TV coverage in the 80s suffered from a lot of follow the local hero or manufacturer.
McLaren as I said became famous or at least shed the Marlboro moniker due to the McLaren F1 supercar and their victory at Le Mans, and that's what made then a name for the car enthusiasts.
It wasn't a case of using the Marlboro Honda due to PR, but simply because most people were usually ignorant/had no knowledge, cared only for the drivers and/or manufactures (be it full teams like Ferrari or engine suppliers).
Some people that knew about names like Williams or McLaren believed these were sport brands or sub-brand belonging to car manufactures.
I would find that irritating, to be honest. I'd rather see the teams referred to by the actual teams not the make-money types. I ought to describe that black car as Manor really...
Apparently, Brazilian TV doesn't want to use the word 'Virgin' for religious reasons so refers to them as "Lucas di Grassi's team". Haha.
Did the German TV perchance call it McLaren's fault when engines were blowing all over the place in 2005?
Apparently, Brazilian TV doesn't want to use the word 'Virgin' for religious reasons so refers to them as "Lucas di Grassi's team". Haha.
Did the German TV perchance call it McLaren's fault when engines were blowing all over the place in 2005?
teabagyokel said:
I've never said that the british garagiste had a minimal influence, quite the contrary they brought the mid-engined "revolution", commercial sponsorship, wings, ground-effects and co.
But for the massive amount of casual fans, international casual fans and fanboys, the appeal (or lack of it) was the national hero driver and/or manufacturer.
In Spain and Poland F1 wasn't even on TV this decade up until Alonso and Kubica showed up, and before that when it had some popularity it was due to the likes of Fitipladi (Spain) and Lauda (Poland)
The most appealing name that could break through the nationalistic support is usually Ferrari, that's not fanboy speech from me, that's the truth.
F1 polls show Ferrari having 1/3 support, and F1 Money said they're worth 1/2 of value of the F1 brand.
Enja said:
Mid 90s ...
In the early 90s they had the superior active suspensions. Before that they had turbos, the superior ground-effects aerodynamics, then the experimental twin-chassis Lotus 88 that was supposed to revolutionize things, and in 1968 movable wings unlike the passive ones of today.
F1 realistically is stuck in the 70s, witch some extras like carbon fibre and semi-automatics/drive by wire due to safety reasons.
MOD Comment
That's an interesting point you've made there DOF. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread on this subject as it seems that there is a lot of interest in it. For now, if all posters could drag this thread back on to the topic of the merits (or not) of the current testing ban it would be appreciated.
Regards C_A_T
That's an interesting point you've made there DOF. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread on this subject as it seems that there is a lot of interest in it. For now, if all posters could drag this thread back on to the topic of the merits (or not) of the current testing ban it would be appreciated.
Regards C_A_T
DOF_power said:
No doubt about it. We lose it here a bit because, of course, whoever's competing against the boys in red have some British connection (even if its not registered British it has a base in Milton Keynes etc.)
DOF_power said:
Again, a statement of undeniable truth. Why did F1's viewing figures fall in the UK in the early 2000s and rise again in 2007-. Its partly because the racing was closer, but mainly because Hamilton came along. I loved 2003, but apparently no-one else did!
My ambivalence to business comes as I am a dyed-in-the-wool lefty. Please excuse my pseudo-socialist babble.
In the simplest sense, I agree with this point of view. And until we get a situation where they are not regarded as a special case, they will continue to expect it, and play the bonus aces incumbent of their 'Special Status'.Bullfrog said:
It is a circular philosophy.
It will never end until such time as Ferrari are no longer regarded as a special case. One must therefore conclude that it is in the interest of the FIA to maintain this relationship, otherwise they would have already done something about it.
And to bring it right back on topic, rather than making F1 stale, the testing ban has rather caught Ferrari stale.
To Alonso, and to others, F1=Ferrari. However, to the group including me, that just means one entrant among 12 has been rattled down to the horrifying lows of 3rd/4th!
To Alonso, and to others, F1=Ferrari. However, to the group including me, that just means one entrant among 12 has been rattled down to the horrifying lows of 3rd/4th!
The Moderator
Clip The Apex
Mod comment
I have split the thread so you can continue the discussion on viewing figures and Ferrari.
Please keep this one on topic and related to testing, thanks.
The new thread is here: Ferrari and viewing figures
I have split the thread so you can continue the discussion on viewing figures and Ferrari.
Please keep this one on topic and related to testing, thanks.
The new thread is here: Ferrari and viewing figures
My view on the testing ban is that I agree with Eddie Jordan (I think it was EJ that said it). The ban on testing means that the each race this season is unpredictable.
When teams have unlimited testing, they have honed the car so that they know exactly how it will run at the race each weekend. Without testing, the teams are forced into doing their testing on the Friday & Saturday morning practice.
It means;
A) we get to see more meaningful practice sessions, and
B) the races are more exciting as the teams have to work on setting up the car, sometimes less effectively than they'd like!
Any part of this post that bears any resemblance to other posts, is purely coincidental..!
When teams have unlimited testing, they have honed the car so that they know exactly how it will run at the race each weekend. Without testing, the teams are forced into doing their testing on the Friday & Saturday morning practice.
It means;
A) we get to see more meaningful practice sessions, and
B) the races are more exciting as the teams have to work on setting up the car, sometimes less effectively than they'd like!
Any part of this post that bears any resemblance to other posts, is purely coincidental..!
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