The Testing Ban Makes F1 Stale

The term "garagistes" to me brings to mind: Ken Tyrrell, Bruce McLaren, Jack Brabham, Frank Williams et al.

If they are not what made F1 great, I would like to know what has.
 
DOF_power said:
If Ferrari suffers ultimately the effect will be felt by everyone, because Ferrari are different and they are special.
GP racing was not a sport intended for garagistes.
Click to expand

Luca? Stefano? Is that you? Couldn't be the ghost of Enzo, could it?

In all seriousness, thank you for being so blunt. I'm glad we know how you really feel. Unfortunately, it means that this rational discussion is over, as you're clearly entrenched in your view that "What is best for Ferrari, is best for the sport." I simply can't subscribe to that notion.
 
Let's not forget that Ferrari did not participate in the very first WC race at Silverstone in 1950 due to a dispute over starting money; essentially they wanted more than the other entrants.
 
Ferrari are only a special case because they've been treated that way, it makes a mockery of the sport to favour one competitor over another. I know this can happen tacitly in other sports but this is enshrined into the main contract/agreement governing the sport and it shouldn't be allowed to continue.
 
Brogan said:
DOF_power said:
Ferrari are different and they are special.
GP racing was not a sport intended for garagistes.
Click to expand
I think I can safely say I disagree 100% with both of those statements.

But you know what, it's the reasons why people like F1 that makes it so unique, so each to their own is my philosophy.
Click to expand



Really, then tell me how many garagistes were there in 1906 at the first official Grand Prix ?!
Or for that matter in the Gordon Bennett Cup ?!

They were all factory teams or factory supported teams or some rich guys buying car from factory teams.

The whole reason that led to the creation of Grand Prix motor racing was due to french auto manufacturers and suppliers being upset at the 3 manufacturers per country rule of the Gordon Bennett Cup.
 
KekeTheKing said:
DOF_power said:
If Ferrari suffers ultimately the effect will be felt by everyone, because Ferrari are different and they are special.
GP racing was not a sport intended for garagistes.
Click to expand

Luca? Stefano? Is that you? Couldn't be the ghost of Enzo, could it?

In all seriousness, thank you for being so blunt. I'm glad we know how you really feel. Unfortunately, it means that this rational discussion is over, as you're clearly entrenched in your view that "What is best for Ferrari, is best for the sport." I simply can't subscribe to that notion.
Click to expand



I never said what's best for Ferrari, is best for the sport, because sometimes (many times) it's quite the opposite.
What is best for Ferrari is best for the business, as long as they don't completely dominate.
 
DOF_power said:
I never said what's best for Ferrari, is best for the sport, because sometimes (many times) it's quite the opposite.
What is best for Ferrari is best for the business, as long as they don't completely dominate.
Click to expand

:thinking: ...... :nah:
 
DOF_power said:
Really, then tell me how many garagistes were there in 1906 at the first official Grand Prix ?!
Or for that matter in the Gordon Bennett Cup ?!
Click to expand

So we're supposed to all be wanting to stick to the 1906 rules. Why?

And how about that famous garagiste Enzo Ferrari. And yes he was.
 
Mod comment

I know this is an emotive subject but can everyone please try and keep it friendly and civil.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how much you may disagree with it.

Thank you.
 
Muddytalker said:
DOF_power said:
GP racing was not a sport intended for garagistes.
Click to expand

Absolute garbage.

And you do know that Ferrari started as a non-garagiste?
Click to expand



Ferrari was not a british garagiste, they started as a factory supported race-team, the de facto/official racing division of Alfa Romeo.
Then when the fascists created Alfa Corse they split, and after WWII Ferrari became a traditional vertical model constructor-manufacturer.
British garagistes for most part were not affiliated with a manufacturer like Ferrari with Alfa Romeo apart from 2 exceptions, Lotus and Ford (in 67) to some extent and Tyrrell and Matra (in 68 and 69).
 
teabagyokel said:
Ferrari are different and they are special
Click to expand

I'm sorry but that will ensure the death of this sport, and that attitude will lead to a great deal of fights on this forum, certainly while I'm still around.
Click to expand



What sport ?!
Was this ever a sport ?
Didn't people say the sport died when commercial sponsorship was allowed in 68 ?!
 
Brogan said:
Here's an earlier thread in which Mosely believes Ferrari would fail under a budget cap.

It looks like he might have been correct.

Also, in the news today, the testing rules have been tightened so that with immediate effect, all teams are banned from running any new parts on their cars during filming or promotional days.
Click to expand
Would that mean McLaren could still use the blown diffuser as it has been fitted to the car for practice, or does it have to have been used under race conditions? :thinking:

As for testing ban making F1 stale, methinks Alonso really needs a speaking to..

Mod comment

Please do not use insulting nicknames for drivers.

If in doubt refer to the Forum Rules for what is and what isn't allowed.

Thank you
 
DOF_power said:
teabagyokel said:
Ferrari are different and they are special
Click to expand

I'm sorry but that will ensure the death of this sport, and that attitude will lead to a great deal of fights on this forum, certainly while I'm still around.
Click to expand



What sport ?!
Was this ever a sport ?
Didn't people say the sport died when commercial sponsorship was allowed in 68 ?!
Click to expand

Your last two lines contradict each other - How can something die when it never was?

Besides, your last line is not the debate here. Your remark that Ferrari are special, and the implication that they have (and deserve) a stronger powerbase due to their history is negated by the continued existence of Mercedes and Renault. Or is that different?
 
So Alonsos comments can be boiled down to this really:

'It's more fun when I'm winning', or even 'A level playing field makes me win less.'
 
siffert_fan said:
The term "garagistes" to me brings to mind: Ken Tyrrell, Bruce McLaren, Jack Brabham, Frank Williams et al.

If they are not what made F1 great, I would like to know what has.
Click to expand



Ferrari, Mercedes, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Renault, Honda and before that, pre F1 add Auto Union, Bugatti, Peugeot, Fiat. But really it was live TV coverage during the Piquet, Prost, Masell and Senna years.

I'm sorry that the british believe that people outside Britain who are casual fans or fanboys actually know who Ken Tyrrell is or Jack Brabham and so on.

They don't.

They know and/or care for the top teams like Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and/or the top drivers.

F1 is not Britain nor is Britain an F1 nation.
 

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