The reinvention of Jenson

[RasputinLives]

Can we try to leave Hamilton out of it, this thread is about Button

Funny getting a lectuer about that from you Cook

Not luck Ninja. He was incredibly loyal to BAR/Honda/Brawn for years when he didn't even have a team principle in his corner and a car that was going nowhere fast. Really all he had was a dream and a love of the sport.

Couldn't agree with you more on that one Kewee. People forget that was his 7th season with the team. A team by the way he dragged from joke of the midfield in 2003 to race winners in 2006 - the awful Honda Earth car and the arrival of that guy I'm not allowed to mention seem to have made people forget that. Its the same as if Ferrari suddenly built a field beating car next season - you wouldn't say Alonso had got lucky you'd say his patience had paid off.

I'm sure people will talk about the whole Williams/B.A.R contract thing to counter act that but I think Jenson was ill-advised through the whole thing and had a sense of loyalty to Williams after they brought him into F1 in the first place. Interestingly the 3 teams he's been with previously gave him no choice but to seek employment elsewhere and everytime they have he's actually taken a step up.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Not luck Ninja. He was incredibly loyal to BAR/Honda/Brawn for years when he didn't even have a team principle in his corner and a car that was going nowhere fast. Really all he had was a dream and a love of the sport.

Well there is an element of luck in everything. I think that this is an example of making your own luck. But what would have happened if Brawn hadn't bought out Honda? A decision entirely out of Jenson's control. To some extent you could call that luck, but obviously he was presented with a decision and it was savvy that made him choose the right path, although his alternatives were slim to none at that time.

 

[RasputinLives]

Well there is an element of luck in everything. I think that this is an example of making your own luck. But what would have happened if Brawn hadn't bought out Honda? A decision entirely out of Jenson's control. To some extent you could call that luck, but obviously he was presented with a decision and it was savvy that made him choose the right path, although his alternatives were slim to none at that time.

you could say it was massive bad luck that a company as big as Honda, with so much success as an engine supplier in F1, were hit by an economic crisis and pulled out of the team. In fact Brawn still insists that with the Honda engine in that car they would have been 2 seconds a lap quicker!

So actually Jenson was massively unlucky Honda pulled out when they did and left him with a car only capable of winning him the world title and not smashing records for years to come after

 

[Kewee]

You might say those horrible years in 2007 and 2008 was a punishment to Jenson for the contract wrangles he had with Williams and BAR

However he was smart to tell Honda back in late 2007 that they needed to get Ross BRawn on board because he was fed up with the decision making process from corporate Honda slowing development down

I remember he issued an ultimatum in 2008 and a few days later Ross Brawn agreed to join Honda

The contract wrangles grew out of difficulties for Jenson a lot earlier than 2007/2008. I won't even try to go into details or we'd be here forever, but it's worth remembering he was kept under contract to Williams when he was loaned out to Benneton for two years. Things went somewhat pear shaped for Jenson when Flavio wanted to bring Alonso in. He clearly didn't want to be left hanging on a string by Williams forever, so made his own decision and signed with BAR. 10 out of 10 as far as I'm concerned for taking control of his own life and career. He's now seeing the results he deserves, results that would probably have come sooner if a couple of previous team principles had shown a little more faith.

 

[Bushi]

And if Flavio had shown a little faith in his driver.

 

[jez101]

Jenson's story in F1 started in 2000 aged just 20, but even before that he was a prodigy.

From wikipedia, edited to highlight his record.

Button began karting at the age of eight

In 1989, aged nine, he came first in the British Super Prix.[5]

He won all 34 races of the 1991 British Cadet Kart Championship, along with the title.[6]

Further successes followed, including three triumphs in the British Open Kart Championship. In 1997, he won the Ayrton Senna Memorial Cup, and also became the youngest driver ever to win the European Super A Championship.[5]

Aged 18, Button moved into car racing, winning the British Formula Ford Championship with Haywood Racing;

he also triumphed in the Formula Ford Festival at Brands Hatch.[7]

At the end of 1998, he won the annual McLaren Autosport BRDC Young Driver Award.

Button entered the British Formula Three Championship in 1999, with the Promatecme team. He won three times —at Thruxton, Pembrey and Silverstone—and finished the season as the top rookie driver, and third overall.[7]

He finished fifth and second respectively in the Marlboro Masters and Macau Grand Prix, losing out by 0.035 seconds to winner Darren Manning in the latter.[7]

Then in 2000 in his rookie year scored 12 points (when the points were only given up to 6th) including a 4th place and four 5th places.

The doubts about him really came from his 2001 season against Fisichella when he was comprehensively beaten in a horrible car. I also thought he was a bit timid in the much faster 2004-05 BAR and I have no doubt that his overtaking ability and defensive driving have improved massively since then. He has always been very fair when others have tried a move on him, perhaps a bit too fair especially with Alonso and Schumacher at Imola in 2005, but that works in his favour too as I think other drivers seem less likely to turn in on him in return.

 

[RasputinLives]

And if Flavio had shown a little faith in his driver.

I don't think it was about faith I don't think Flav wanted him up against his prodigy Alonso. Now that would have been a fight I would have paid to have seen - Button and Alonso in the 2003 Renault. Fireworks time I reckon that would have been!

 

[Road of Bones]

Indeed Raspy!
I remember well the excellent tussle they had at Hockenheim in 2004, when Jenson harried Fernando for several laps before eventually disposing of him round the outside of the entry to the stadium section. One wonders now if Flavio's "kerbstone" jibes in 2009 weren't flavoured with sour grapes...

 

[The Artist.....]

Indeed Raspy!
I remember well the excellent tussle they had at Hockenheim in 2004, when Jenson harried Fernando for several laps before eventually disposing of him round the outside of the entry to the stadium section. One wonders now if Flavio's "kerbstone" jibes in 2009 weren't flavoured with sour grapes...

... And JB was driving one handed at the time!!!

 

[RasputinLives]

Great driving from both

 

[jez101]

Great driving from both

Good video Rasp!

I can't help thinking though that the 2012 Jenson would have made one of those moves stick by being a little less generous - not much, just a little. I think that is where he has improved most since he entered the sport.

 

[OnTheLimit]

Great driving from both

Sound is just music to my ears...Awesome video.
JB's driving style back then was as epic as it is now, super slick!

 

[Kewee]

And if Flavio had shown a little faith in his driver.

That's exactly what I was saying when I referred to a couple of team principles showing faith.

 

[Blog Zbod]

I don't think it was Jenson who was reinvented, I think it was the F1 car. The sport came to Jenson.

His 2009 WDC is attributable to having exclusive use of the shadow diffuser at the opening of the season. Once the other front-running teams had developed a comparable device, his results fell to mid-field. In the final 10 races, he scored no victories and just two podium finishes. Button was out-pointed over those same 10 races by Vettel, Barrichello, Webber, He Who Must Not Be Named, and Raikkonen. It was only cannibalism among those five faster drivers that protected the lead he had amassed in the six opening races.

2010 was the first year of the current crop of obese cars, no in-race refueling. But in 2010 they still had 'real' tyres. With the Bridgestones under them, even burdened with the added fuel weight, they still could withstand being flogged. Even with one DNF more than Button on the season, He Who Must Not Be Named still finished higher in the WDC.

2011 marked the arrival of the fast-disintegrating Pirellis, F1's equivalent of the glass slipper. With the added start fuel load carried over from the previous season, these are tyres (and cars) that reward being driven as if they were made of glass. The driver who wins the race isn't the one capable of driving his car nearest its limit, it's the one who expends his resources the most efficiently.

Button has the good fortune of driving for (seemingly) one of the only two contending teams, he long has been noted as the driver who is easiest on his equipment, and he has a teammate who has no more grasp of the phrase "conserve your tyres" than Tiger Woods does the expression, "Lay up."

He hasn't reinvented himself in the least, the sport simply has chosen to change to playing his game.

 

[Kewee]

I don't think it was Jenson who was reinvented, I think it was the F1 car. The sport came to Jenson.

His 2009 WDC is attributable to having exclusive use of the shadow diffuser at the opening of the season. Once the other front-running teams had developed a comparable device, his results fell to mid-field. In the final 10 races, he scored no victories and just two podium finishes. Button was out-pointed over those same 10 races by Vettel, Barrichello, Webber, He Who Must Not Be Named, and Raikkonen. It was only cannibalism among those five faster drivers that protected the lead he had amassed in the six opening races.

2010 was the first year of the current crop of obese cars, no in-race refueling. But in 2010 they still had 'real' tyres. With the Bridgestones under them, even burdened with the added fuel weight, they still could withstand being flogged. Even with one DNF more than Button on the season, He Who Must Not Be Named still finished higher in the WDC.

2011 marked the arrival of the fast-disintegrating Pirellis, F1's equivalent of the glass slipper. With the added start fuel load carried over from the previous season, these are tyres (and cars) that reward being driven as if they were made of glass. The driver who wins the race isn't the one capable of driving his car nearest its limit, it's the one who expends his resources the most efficiently.

Button has the good fortune of driving for (seemingly) one of the only two contending teams, he long has been noted as the driver who is easiest on his equipment, and he has a teammate who has no more grasp of the phrase "conserve your tyres" than Tiger Woods does the expression, "Lay up."

He hasn't reinvented himself in the least, the sport simply has chosen to change to playing his game.

Yes and by Ross Brawns own admission the team let Jenson down a little by failing to do further development as the 2009 season progressed allowing his rivals to catch up. Although he started to struggle a bit in the second half of the season, when push came to shove he put in a World Champions drive in Brazil to take the title with a race to spare.

 

[RasputinLives]

I don't think it was Jenson who was reinvented, I think it was the F1 car. The sport came to Jenson.

His 2009 WDC is attributable to having exclusive use of the shadow diffuser at the opening of the season. Once the other front-running teams had developed a comparable device, his results fell to mid-field. In the final 10 races, he scored no victories and just two podium finishes. Button was out-pointed over those same 10 races by Vettel, Barrichello, Webber, He Who Must Not Be Named, and Raikkonen. It was only cannibalism among those five faster drivers that protected the lead he had amassed in the six opening races.

2010 was the first year of the current crop of obese cars, no in-race refueling. But in 2010 they still had 'real' tyres. With the Bridgestones under them, even burdened with the added fuel weight, they still could withstand being flogged. Even with one DNF more than Button on the season, He Who Must Not Be Named still finished higher in the WDC.

2011 marked the arrival of the fast-disintegrating Pirellis, F1's equivalent of the glass slipper. With the added start fuel load carried over from the previous season, these are tyres (and cars) that reward being driven as if they were made of glass. The driver who wins the race isn't the one capable of driving his car nearest its limit, it's the one who expends his resources the most efficiently.

Button has the good fortune of driving for (seemingly) one of the only two contending teams, he long has been noted as the driver who is easiest on his equipment, and he has a teammate who has no more grasp of the phrase "conserve your tyres" than Tiger Woods does the expression, "Lay up."

He hasn't reinvented himself in the least, the sport simply has chosen to change to playing his game.

Whilst I think you have a point lets not forget that Jenson was no slouch before 2009 in the old sprint-stop-sprint format F1. Most of us were asleep during the 2004 season but if we take a look back his third in the title behind the massively dominant Ferrari was pretty amazing especially when you consider the competition around him who are supposedly better at that format and who were in supposedly faster cars. His second half 2005 season and 2006 season were pretty tasty too - so I'd conclude even if the format hadn't changed given the team and car he is in now he'd still be pretty competitive.

Whilst he has benifited from the format change I also believe the likes of Vettel etc have benifited too. He Who Must Not Be Named I believe is the person who has lost out the most and is still struggling to get a grip on the new format as the sprint-stop-sprint certainly suited his style of driving more.

 

[Galahad]

Was the BAR not the second-quickest car in 2004? I thought it was. Any car that can put Taku on a podium must be reasonably decent.

As for Flav swapping Button for Alonso, for five years everyone thought he'd done the right thing. I still think he did. Perhaps it should have been Trulli who made way, but given the choice purely between the two I'd still employ Fernando above Jenson, excellent as JB now is.

It's natural to look for clues in hindsight that Button was a superstar, but I tend to agree with Blog Zbod - the sport has come to him, and at the same time he has clearly worked very hard on maximising his strengths and minimising weaknesses, to the point where there now appear to be very few. So full credit to him.

 

[RasputinLives]

Was the BAR not the second-quickest car in 2004? I thought it was. Any car that can put Taku on a podium must be reasonably decent.

Thats why I said supposedly faster cars. I still think they're is an argument that they were. I just kinda meant that when you had Kimi in a Mclaren, Montoya in a Williams and Alonso and Trulli in Renaults that season and no one at the start would have said Jenson would have been 3rd in the title. I still don't think the BAR was the better of any of those cars but probably on a par with them. Jenson's consistant results got him higher in the table than his rivals - something he's still doing.

As for Flav swapping Button for Alonso, for five years everyone thought he'd done the right thing. I still think he did. Perhaps it should have been Trulli who made way, but given the choice purely between the two I'd still employ Fernando above Jenson, excellent as JB now is.

I don't think anyone is questioning Flav's decision to take Fernando on but to keep Trulli over Jenson. 14 points to 9 and 7 points finishes to 4 put Jenson clearly in front of Jarno so it all felt a bit personel rather than a judgement on his driving skills.

 

[Galahad]

Thats why I said supposedly faster cars. I still think they're is an argument that they were. I just kinda meant that when you had Kimi in a Mclaren, Montoya in a Williams and Alonso and Trulli in Renaults that season and no one at the start would have said Jenson would have been 3rd in the title. I still don't think the BAR was the better of any of those cars but probably on a par with them. Jenson's consistant results got him higher in the table than his rivals - something he's still doing.

My recollection was that McLaren and Williams - for different reasons - started the season with cars that were significantly, measurably slower than the BAR, but through development during the year improved them to the point that, by relatively late on, they were as good or better. The Renault may have been on a par but had a very different performance pattern, with that rear-biased weight distribution philosophy that aided traction.

I don't think anyone is questioning Flav's decision to take Fernando on but to keep Trulli over Jenson. 14 points to 9 and 7 points finishes to 4 put Jenson clearly in front of Jarno so it all felt a bit personel rather than a judgement on his driving skills.

Fine. Of course, JB belonged to Williams while Trulli belonged to Flav.

 

[Kewee]

Was the BAR not the second-quickest car in 2004? I thought it was. Any car that can put Taku on a podium must be reasonably decent.

As for Flav swapping Button for Alonso, for five years everyone thought he'd done the right thing. I still think he did. Perhaps it should have been Trulli who made way, but given the choice purely between the two I'd still employ Fernando above Jenson, excellent as JB now is.

It's natural to look for clues in hindsight that Button was a superstar, but I tend to agree with Blog Zbod - the sport has come to him, and at the same time he has clearly worked very hard on maximising his strengths and minimising weaknesses, to the point where there now appear to be very few. So full credit to him.

I wasn't suggesting who between Jenson and Fernando was the best choice, just that Jenson was unable to control his own career path and was passed between teams whether he liked it or not. Once he made his own choices he was incredibly loyal through good times and bad times and eventually his loyalty was rewarded.
I don't think many would suggest BAR was the second best car in 2004 which was the other point I was making. Jenson had a great year and hauled BAR to 2nd in the constructors championship without a great deal of help from his teammate.