The importance of pole position.

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Mexico '92- he qualified 6th

Austria 1986... 9th or so at the majestic Osterreichring...

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

After Senna left Toleman did he ever qualify lower than 5th?

1985 Austria Osterreichring 14
1986 Austria Osterreichring 8
1987 Hungary Hungaroring 6
1987 Austria Osterreichring 7
1987 Mexico Mexico City 7
1987 Japan Suzuka 7
1992 Mexico Mexico City 6
1993 Canada Montreal 8

The only races after his 1984 season at Toleman he wasn't 5th or higher on the grid....

That is 8 races from 147 raced...

 

[F1Yorkshire]

The vast majority of them early in his career too. It's an outstanding record.

 

[teabagyokel]

So, as usual, Ayrton Senna does something, and its fantastic. Someone else does the same thing, in this case, Sebastian Vettel, and it proves he's crap.

 

[teabagyokel]

Its worth remembering that from 2003-09, pole was a little devalued because it was the time of the stupid qualifying-fuel-to-race situation which allowed glory runs such as Alonso at Hungary in 2009.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

So, as usual, Ayrton Senna does something, and its fantastic. Someone else does the same thing, in this case, Sebastian Vettel, and it proves he's crap.

Time for the no shit sherlock statement:

What those figures prove is that the fastest drivers will always tend to qualify closer to the front.

 

[teabagyokel]

F1Yorkshire - Exactly.

 

[Incubus]

Absolutely TBY. Although I'm not sure "glory run" is a particularly accurate description. When you know your car is less competitive than the opposition you just have to try something different tactics-wise.
But it's true that during that period some drivers and their race-engineers traditionally favoured a heavier car than than their team-mates, go longer into the race so that they would enjoy the benefit of a lighter car in periods when the rest of the field would be making their first stop.

 

[The Pits]

And being fast, they tend to do well in the races too.

 

[Brogan]

So to summarise; good/fast drivers in fast cars generally qualify near the front which gives them a greater chance of winning.

Wow! Who'd have thought it...

 

[RickD]

Explain Prost.

 

[Viscount]

RickD He's the exception that proves the rule!

 

[F1Yorkshire]

Explain Prost.

He's French, they always have to be different.

 

[teabagyokel]

RickD - Prost's first two titles came in the early turbo era, when it was less uncommon for a car to lead then retire. Lauda did not score a pole position in 1984 on his way to the title, showing McLaren were the most likely of the top teams to finish a race even if pole was often held by Nelson Piquet's Brabham.

In 1988 and 1989, Prost often "sacrificed" pole for a better race set-up, knowing he could not beat Senna over one lap in general, but could beat the Brazilian over a race distance.

 

[The Artist.....]

What shocks me most is Schumacher! - Of his 92 wins, only 40 came from pole position - (or alternatively a 44% rate!)...

Considering that Schumacher drove much of his career in a dominant car (in fact the fastest car on the grid), then it really is surprising that this isn't higher!

 

[teabagyokel]

The Artist..... In 2002, Montoya took 7 pole positions and pissed them all away. Barrichello actually beat Schumacher in the 2003 Qualifying Championship:

 

[Brogan]

In 2002, Montoya took 7 pole positions and pissed them all away.

Which demonstrates perfectly why raw stat's are fairly useless on their own; it's all about context.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Just as an aside I for one much prefer the tactical side of racing, I find it far more interesting than simply sticking it on pole and then clearing off into the distance to win, which is why I found last year so boring and it looks like we are going to have a boring end to what started off as a great season this year...

 

[Incubus]

Well yes but the main technical regs were mostly similar last year, so it wasn't the tactics that have made it different for most of this year.
it was the fact that the Vettel/Red Bull combination was pretty much the fastest everywhere, IN QUALI AS WELL AS IN RACE PACE.
That made tactical nous a tad irrelevant...

 

[Mezzer]

I would suggest that Sebastian Vettel won a championship in qualifying. Very recently.

Like it. The way it has been achieved, however, seems to lock further and further into my pet peeve (OK, one of them) in allowing DRS to be used freely in Quali. It is an offence to God and man, IMO, begorrah.