The comments about "winning under any circumstances" reminds me of a quote from Jackie Stewart: "Show me a gracious loser, and I'll show you a loser".
The complete package
- Thread starter Brogan
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Just to muddy the waters, are we confining ourselves here to a drivers capability in F1 only? The drivers in F1 in the fifties and sixties used to race in other formulae as well, to say nothing of non-championship F1 races.
If we do include other events then Moss goes up a peg. He admitted that Fangio was faster in an F1 car, but he did beat him several times outside F1.
http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/drv-mossir.html
If we do include other events then Moss goes up a peg. He admitted that Fangio was faster in an F1 car, but he did beat him several times outside F1.
http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/drv-mossir.html
Boddy, Good point.
If we venture away from F1, I would say there are 2 present-day racers that meet the requirements-- Loeb and Kristensen
If we venture away from F1, I would say there are 2 present-day racers that meet the requirements-- Loeb and Kristensen
Mario's CV is even more impressive than Hill's. F1 WDC, Indy Car Champion, Indy 500 winner, Le Man class winner, Pikes Peak winner, Daytona 500 winner, Sebring 12 hours winner and many more wins in other formulas. GH won the Indy 500 and Le Mans but was never Indy Car champion.
To dominate and push forward a team is a skill that I would think is required of a "complete package", something that Prost certainly did not do.
In the modern era the only contender is Schumacher, for the way he ruthlessly dominated the 1994-2006 era. He had 2005 in a car on tyres which inhibited his performance, but other than that he won 7 titles. This is considering he took on and beat Newey-Williams in 1994 and 1995, could have won 1997 and 1998 in inferior cars, would have won 1999 but for a broken leg and won the next 5.
From what I've read there are two candidates from the past as well. The first is Jim Clark, who when in the fastest car either won or broke down. 72 Grand Prix, 25 wins, 28 retirements. That is better than one win every two finishes.
The other is Juan Manuel Fangio, who generally either won or broke down. 51 Grand Prix, 24 wins, 14 retirements. That is also better than one win every two finishes, it is nearly one win every two starts.
That is one impressive CV.Fascinating topic this.There are so many different formula to compare.
Difficult to come up with a complete driver over his entire career.
Drivers will have a period of performing almost flawlessly (ie Vettel) 2011.
Next season it could well be a diifferent driver.
Will echo some of the points raised will have to say that Jim Clark has to considered the all round package as his results speak for themselves. He also raced in an era were driving on the edge was a lot more dangerous than it is today, plus he also raced in other motor sport catagories at the same time as driving in F1.
Clinton
Rookie
I was referring primarily to the unforced crashing off that occurred beforehand. The collision with Hill was probably intentional as you say.
Whether or not it was intentional and regardless of the degree of premeditation, this was hardly rational cool-headed behaviour under pressure. Unlike 1994, it's hard to imagine Schumi gaining anything from colliding with Villeneuve in those circumstances. Likewise the ridiculous Monaco incident in 2006.
I would add the mid-season start crashes in 2000 as a further example of difficulties in dealing with pressure, given the weight of expectation resting upon a driver promising Ferrari's first title in years.
Clinton
Rookie
Hungary 2006?
TBY
The one thing that distorts Fangio's stats is that, in his era, if his car broke during a race, he could, and did, take over a teammates car. Indeed, Collins giving up his car to Fangio probably cost him (Collins) the championship.
This, however, should not be interpreted as my denying the mans greatness.
The one thing that distorts Fangio's stats is that, in his era, if his car broke during a race, he could, and did, take over a teammates car. Indeed, Collins giving up his car to Fangio probably cost him (Collins) the championship.
This, however, should not be interpreted as my denying the mans greatness.
Fernando never made that claim. I think the first person to say that was actually Martin Brundle
No he actially did.
If you re-watch the 2008 season with itv commentray Martin Brundle quotes Alonso in one of the races, something along the lines
And ever since then, that title has stayed with him.
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