The 2010 entry list

[Brogan]

The FIA have published the list and as expected, (some of) the FOTA teams have been told to drop the conditions or they're out. This is despite Max telling them to submit a conditional entry in the first place

Ferrari have categorically stated that they won't enter under the current rules so let's see if they stick by that.

Also, note the TBA next to Toro Rosso and Brawn which would imply they haven't yet finalised an engine deal.

And who predicted Manor would get a slot over all the other entries?

World championship leaders Brawn, plus former champions McLaren and Renault are among the teams that have been told to lift the conditions on their entry to the 2010 championship by June 19 or risk being left off the grid.

Team                         Constructor

Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro    Ferrari

Scuderia Toro Rosso          STR TBA

Red Bull Racing              Red Bull Renault

At&T Williams                Williams Toyota

Force India F1 Team          Force India Mercedes

Campos Grand Prix            Campos Cosworth

Manor Grand Prix             Manor Cosworth

Team US F1                   Team US F1 Cosworth

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes*   McLaren Mercedes

BMW Sauber F1 Team*          BMW Sauber

Renault F1 Team*             Renault

Panasonic Toyota Racing*     Toyota

Brawn GP Formula One Team*   Brawn TBA

More here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76045
and here: http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2009/Pages/f1_2010_entrants.aspx

 

[Galahad]

I'm glad to see the FIA didn't play silly b*****s and leave the FOTA teams off the list completely. Hopefully this is a sign that a compromise can be agreed within the next week or so.

I don't think Campos and US F1 are very surprising choices, but I hadn't even heard that Manor had submitted an entry!? They must have some strong funding from somewhere as well as the support from Wirth Research for them to get the slot over e.g. Prodrive or Epsilon Euskadi.

 

[Brogan]

I suppose that's one way of looking at it. There's another week of negotiations now to reach some sort of compromise.
Will be interesting to see how Ferrari get involved and state whether they are going to participate under the current rules or not.

Yes I think Campos and US F1 were shoe-ins for obvious reasons.

Manor though is very surprising - obviously they must have better financials and long term prospects than the others.

 

[Galahad]

Mosley and Wirth have a long-standing relationship going back to the Simtek F1 days.

Whilst I suspected that Prodrive's bid was more style than substance, it still surprises me somewhat that they've been unsuccessful this time.

Perhaps if one of the new teams doesn't work out there will be another chance for 2011.

 

[teabagyokel]

I'm glad to see the FIA didn't play silly b*****s and leave the FOTA teams off the list completely.

No, the FIA are much, much cleverer than that. They've tried to split FOTA by giving Ferrari and Red Bull/Toro Rosso entries whilst giving McLaren, BMW, Renault, Toyota and Brawn an ultimatum.

Anyway, no surprise to see Campos or USF1 in F1, whilst Max siding with Nick Wirth should not be a surprise to anyone. Although why you'd want Wirth anywhere near an F1 car when he designed the Simteks, some non-brilliant Benettons and even the 1992 Andrea Moda!

Anyway, when you're to the Manor born... ("Coat please")

 

[cider_and_toast]

I always thought that the Simtek was quite a nice car but they were always a bit unlucky. They were just about getting there when Ratzenberger was killed and they didn't really recover. They made a much better job of it than Pacific who started in F1 at around the same time.

It was always going to be US F1 but I wasn't sure who would make up the other two. It's no suprise who I was fully behind but as I said before that was more in hope than reality.

Adrian Campos was laughable as a driver so I hope he proves more effective as a team manager.

Obviously the big question is how the others sort themselves out. Isn't there also an oustanding issue over the inteligent rights of the STR and RBR chassis or has that been resolved now? I thought there were ongoing questions over the legality of the "buy the design and call it your own" method of operation.

It also made me chuckle when I read the Autosport article that Ferrari are not one of the teams being asked to revise their appication (at least that's the impression the article gave). It would seem that they have a foot in both camps.

Ah well, as far as Team Lotus goes, it's back to re-lighting my candle and maintaining my vigil outside Hethel. One day..... One day.

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

Hopefully this is the start of the tide changing and the 'civil war' as its wrongly been dubbed is on the way to being over,

No suprsies in that all 10 teams are included even if 5 are conditional, I think both parties know the damage a split would do for formula one, for starters F1/Breakway series would only have half the fans.

Manor GP heh?? is that the same outfit that run in F3, a little suprising but a very professional outfit even if Nick wirth is involved

Dont think the Lotus and Brabham absence is suprising after what happened yesterday with the old We own lotus not you battle and Jack Brabham announcing that there going to sue formatech.
It would be the last thing F1 need right now after the debarcle of the past few months.

Intresting to Hear Prodrive are still intrested in 2010, the Autosport article didn't seem clear, is this in place or a current team or with even more expansion on the amount of teams in F1

 

[Galahad]

According to this article there may still be a chance of more new entrants coming in:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76058

Most obviously, Toro Rosso are up for sale. Additionally rumours continue to circulate (some started by Mosley, it must be said) suggesting that one or two of the manufacturers are poised to quit at the end of this season.

 

[Brogan]

And according to this article, Ferrari have reaffirmed their intention not to compete unless the rules are changed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76050

That's good news as it will strengthen the hand of the rest of the FOTA teams which have been told to drop the conditions attached to their entries.

 

[Galahad]

...and Red Bull and Toro Rosso have done likewise

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76053

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76055

 

[Andrea_Moda_Rules]

cider,
I think Ferrari are condsidered in without a conditional entriy because the techinally already have a contract till 2012, They have alrdy said they dont want to race if the rules are the same and dont have to because the reg changes mean that contract is null and void, The FIA obivously think differnent.....If Ferrari don't race this could end up getting very very messy.

 

[Brogan]

Great stuff!

So for once the teams are united and so far all attempts by Max to split them have failed.

It's going to be an interesting 7 days but we should get some idea before next Friday as to the outcome based on what's leaked to the press.

 

[Brogan]

It looks like the teams are already ramping up their efforts.
They've written to the FIA's senate and the WMSC.

We respectfully seek the intervention of the World Council to facilitate solutions to the present situation," the letter said.

We have attended numerous meetings with the FIA's representatives and have been unable to make any substantive progress.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/12062009/58/teams-slam-fia-despite-2010-entry.html

 

[Galahad]

Hmm.

Do we think that is going to achieve anything?

I think FOTA's hearts are generally in the right place, but their political skills need a bit of honing. Having a cost-cutting meeting on Flav's yacht springs to mind.

 

[Brogan]

Unfortunately that has ever been the case.

Bernie & Max are very astute when it comes to this aspect of F1 which is generally why they end up getting their own way.

 

[Speshal]

I'm still confused about customer cars. So the Campos is actually a Dallara Cosworth?

Anyway back on topic - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76093

revision of its constitution

- i.e no dictatorial style

The ACEA calling for better/more transparent governance of motorsport in general is quite a biggie is it not? Yes the ACEA represent a lot of the unconditional entries in F1 - but the one that stands out in that article for me is Volkswagen and by definition Porsche and all the marques they control basically expressing dissatisfaction with the FIA across all levels of motorsport.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I would like to bet that one of the reasons for the list of 3 new teams being something of a suprise (with the exception perhaps of USF1) is that I expect they were asked by Max, "if the rules to which they had signed up to the 2010 season were changed would they still be prepared to enter". There is stll a long way to go in these negotiations between FOTA and the FIA and I don't think the potential new teams dropping out at the first hurdle would help the FIA cause.

Getting the big european car makers on side provided a good bit of press for both the makers and the teams but I can't see it having any real effect in the long run. Most european car makers have had a go at F1 in some way shape or form with various results in the past and will do again in the future no doubt. While they are outside of the sport they hold very little influence on how it's run. The car makers have been pulling out of other forms of motorsport (WRC, BTCC, WTCC etc) in their droves on cost grounds so it's very hypocritical of them.

 

[Brogan]

I would like to bet that one of the reasons for the list of 3 new teams being something of a suprise (with the exception perhaps of USF1) is that I expect they were asked by Max, "if the rules to which they had signed up to the 2010 season were changed would they still be prepared to enter". There is stll a long way to go in these negotiations between FOTA and the FIA and I don't think the potential new teams dropping out at the first hurdle would help the FIA cause.

That's a very good point.

I wonder how many of the new entrants were prepared to enter without a budget cap?

 

[Galahad]

I'm still confused about customer cars. So the Campos is actually a Dallara Cosworth?

You can run a car designed and/or built by somebody else as long as you are the only team running cars in F1 that are designed and/or built by that constructor.

So Campos couldn't run a Renault, for example. And nor could Dallara supply two teams. But this arrangement is OK under the rules.

In the late 1980s/early 1990s the Scuderia Italia team ran cars in F1 constructed by Dallara, and subsequently Lola.

 

[Brogan]

You can run a car designed and/or built by somebody else as long as you are the only team running cars in F1 that are designed and/or built by that constructor.

Does that include Red Bull and Toro Rosso?