The 2010 entry list
- Thread starter Brogan
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The "final" 2010 entry list has been published.
The full FIA press release is here: http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wmsc/2009/Pages/wmsc_240609.aspx
So, how many final entry lists have we had now, Brogan?
So we understand, on the numerology front, that Campos will take the numbers 22 & 23. If they do, surely the WDC is just round the corner!?
Anyway, great news that we'll be more Min than Max next year - pity about the budget cap, but I'm sure at least USF1 will get to the grid - probably in Melbourne next March!
So we understand, on the numerology front, that Campos will take the numbers 22 & 23. If they do, surely the WDC is just round the corner!?
Anyway, great news that we'll be more Min than Max next year - pity about the budget cap, but I'm sure at least USF1 will get to the grid - probably in Melbourne next March!
Who knows and if these articles are correct, there may yet be another oneteabagyokel said:
How neutral was the 2010 team selection process?
Virgin poised to ditch Brawn for grand prix newcomers Manor
It would seem Max's right hand man, Donnelly, might have had an inkling who was going to be selected several weeks before the process was complete...
Two things, the first on the above, 
Secondly, on the 2010 season in general, I take it Cosworth will still be making engines for those teams that have signed to run with them? Will this include Williams and Force India ??
Secondly, on the 2010 season in general, I take it Cosworth will still be making engines for those teams that have signed to run with them? Will this include Williams and Force India ??
As far as I am aware, this is the current engine status:
Only Toro Rosso, Red Bull and Brawn are yet to declare their engines.
TEAM CONSTRUCTORSo Williams will once again be using Toyota engines, likewise Force India with Mercedes.
SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO FERRARI
VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES McLAREN MERCEDES
BMW SAUBER F1 TEAM BMW SAUBER
RENAULT F1 TEAM RENAULT
PANASONIC TOYOTA RACING TOYOTA
SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO STR TBA
RED BULL RACING RBR TBA
AT&T WILLIAMS WILLIAMS TOYOTA
FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM BRAWN TBA
CAMPOS META TEAM CAMPOS COSWORTH
MANOR GRAND PRIX MANOR COSWORTH
TEAM US F1 TEAM US F1 COSWORTH
Only Toro Rosso, Red Bull and Brawn are yet to declare their engines.
Cheers Bro 
For some reason I thought that Williams were in their final year of the Toyota contract and were going to opt for Cosworth for 2010 especially in light of their un-conditional entry. It makes sense for them to remain with Toyota as they seem to be developing quite nicely.
I expect Braun will have an option for Merc in 2010 but I wouldn't rule out a switch to Ferrari for obvious reasons.
For some reason I thought that Williams were in their final year of the Toyota contract and were going to opt for Cosworth for 2010 especially in light of their un-conditional entry. It makes sense for them to remain with Toyota as they seem to be developing quite nicely.
I expect Braun will have an option for Merc in 2010 but I wouldn't rule out a switch to Ferrari for obvious reasons.
I think Williams still have 1 year of their Nakajima/engine contract to run.
I'm sure GM will correct me if I'm wrong.
Personally I think Brawn would be mad to change from Mercedes to Ferrari.
The engine is bullet-proof, has proven power and by all accounts requires less cooling, an important factor with more and more races being run in hotter climates.
What do you mean by "obvious reasons" though?
I'm sure GM will correct me if I'm wrong.
Personally I think Brawn would be mad to change from Mercedes to Ferrari.
The engine is bullet-proof, has proven power and by all accounts requires less cooling, an important factor with more and more races being run in hotter climates.
What do you mean by "obvious reasons" though?
Perhaps jumping to too many conclusions however I believe that Brawn only have a one year deal with Merc and traditionally engine suppliers are never too keen to see non works teams do better than the works outfit.
Next year could be something of a struggle for Brawn because they will lack a great deal of the finacial and technical jumps that they have enjoyed this season. For the first time Brawn will actually have to go out into the market place to fund his team and I don't think he will find it all that easy.
Obviously with his previous Ferrari background I'd speculate that the price Merc would ask to renew an engine deal would be greater than that of Ferrari and Brawn may just opt to return to the devil he knows.
I couldn't see him looking at any other deals between those two suppliers.
Next year could be something of a struggle for Brawn because they will lack a great deal of the finacial and technical jumps that they have enjoyed this season. For the first time Brawn will actually have to go out into the market place to fund his team and I don't think he will find it all that easy.
Obviously with his previous Ferrari background I'd speculate that the price Merc would ask to renew an engine deal would be greater than that of Ferrari and Brawn may just opt to return to the devil he knows.
I couldn't see him looking at any other deals between those two suppliers.
Oh dear, it just gets worse...
For balance, here's the FIA statement: 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship
It's interesting that the FIA statement just paints FOTA as the bad guys with no explanation as to why they walked out.
I wonder if this was part of Max's plan to get them to sign up and then spring this little surprise on them before the ink was even dry on the contracts?
I feel now FOTA should just walk away and set up their own series away from all the shenanigans and double-dealings.
If I didn't know better (and I'm not sure I do), I would say Max and the FIA are actively trying to push FOTA away to set up a breakaway series.
I bet CVC and Bernie aren't too happy with this latest development.
Full statement here: A statement from FOTA
For balance, here's the FIA statement: 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship
It's interesting that the FIA statement just paints FOTA as the bad guys with no explanation as to why they walked out.
I wonder if this was part of Max's plan to get them to sign up and then spring this little surprise on them before the ink was even dry on the contracts?
I feel now FOTA should just walk away and set up their own series away from all the shenanigans and double-dealings.
If I didn't know better (and I'm not sure I do), I would say Max and the FIA are actively trying to push FOTA away to set up a breakaway series.
I bet CVC and Bernie aren't too happy with this latest development.
Fota should walk - there is no reasoning with this man. He pretends to be the "pinnacle" of reason and yet he has completely lost his marbles. And as for getting Charlie Whiting to deliver the message - just shows how much the entire organisation is in MM's thrall.
Complete madness!
Complete madness!
I'm sure that in all the rules and agreements it states that the regulations and format of F1 is set by the FIA.
It is interesting that they have now got to the point where they do not believe that an agreed and steady evolution of the regulations is the way to govern such a high investment sport, coupled with the fact that there seems to be a pissing competition to prove that the competitors have to be shown they have no vote.
On paper I'm sure the FIA are can demonstrate that they are in the right and acting appropriately, but in reality you just can't behave like that. The sides might not agree with each other, but rather than working on the issues each time there's a disagreement the FIA simply tell the competitors where to go.
This has to purely be a symptom of a dictatorial approach over a period of time, that's why it's so emotive, that's why FOTA was formed, and therefore why the sport is being torn apart.
The drivers association was started in the early 60s because the drivers felt they needed a unified voice to bring about change to reflect their interests in a growing, professional sport - FOTA was a natural evolution for the constructors in an ever growing commercial environment where the teams have limitations on their ability to adapt to regulations and are tired of being knocked over one at a time.
To be honest FOTA would be foolish to remain in a racing series where such an administration was allowed to continue.
It is interesting that they have now got to the point where they do not believe that an agreed and steady evolution of the regulations is the way to govern such a high investment sport, coupled with the fact that there seems to be a pissing competition to prove that the competitors have to be shown they have no vote.
On paper I'm sure the FIA are can demonstrate that they are in the right and acting appropriately, but in reality you just can't behave like that. The sides might not agree with each other, but rather than working on the issues each time there's a disagreement the FIA simply tell the competitors where to go.
This has to purely be a symptom of a dictatorial approach over a period of time, that's why it's so emotive, that's why FOTA was formed, and therefore why the sport is being torn apart.
The drivers association was started in the early 60s because the drivers felt they needed a unified voice to bring about change to reflect their interests in a growing, professional sport - FOTA was a natural evolution for the constructors in an ever growing commercial environment where the teams have limitations on their ability to adapt to regulations and are tired of being knocked over one at a time.
To be honest FOTA would be foolish to remain in a racing series where such an administration was allowed to continue.
Looks like the press release tennis is in full flow again.
The FIA have responded to FOTA's statement.
[BOX=400]Before FOTA’s decision to walk out of yesterday’s Technical Working Group meeting, the President of the FIA wrote twice to the President of FOTA to remind him that any amendments to the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship regulations were subject to the unanimous approval of the five teams that had already entered for next season under the rules as published.
This is because of the International Sporting Code and also because the entered teams have a contract with the FIA which not even the General Assembly or the World Council can abrogate. Anyone with an elementary knowledge of motor sport governance knows this. Imagine the uproar if, after the FOTA teams had entered, the World Council were subsequently to change the rules without asking them.
It follows that the agreement of the five teams currently entered in the 2010 World Championship to all 2010 rule changes is required. To suggest that FOTA were only made aware of this during the meetings of yesterday is quite simply untrue. So is the implicit claim that they were all unaware of one of motor sport’s basic principles.
As things stand, the current members of the F1 Technical and Sporting Working Groups, in relation to 2010 are the teams which have entered the 2010 Championship. However the 8 FOTA teams were invited to the meetings in order that all 13 teams could agree the 2010 Sporting and Technical Regulations which would then be the so-called ‘stable regulations’ in a new Concorde Agreement. The SWG took place in the morning on this basis and much progress was made. However in the afternoon the FOTA teams walked out of the TWG. Nevertheless the five entered teams were able to confirm the changes agreed by the World Council in Paris on 24 June, as announced yesterday.
It has always been the FIA's understanding that the FOTA teams wanted a Concorde Agreement in place before entering the 2010 Championship. Once entered, the FOTA teams could no longer threaten a breakaway because of the contractual position mentioned above.
The basis for the FIA agreeing to drop plans for a cost cap was the proposal prepared by the Williams team over the Silverstone weekend which would allow an agreed reduction of expenditure to the level of the early 1990s by the end of 2011 to be dealt with by the teams themselves. This reduction was agreed by FOTA and confirmed by them in Paris on 24 June. This would be a private, legally-enforceable contract involving all the teams, but not the FIA. The FIA confirmed in Paris that once this agreement is in place, the cost cap provisions can be removed from the 2010 Sporting Regulations.
The deal that the FIA reached with FOTA in Paris was to extend the 1998 Concorde Agreement with some minor amendments to the governance section. This would have put in place an F1 Commission to deal with future rules with any major question going to the FIA Senate.
However, on 25 June, instead of the 1998 Agreement with some minor amendments, the FIA received 350 pages of a completely new Concorde Agreement.
It being wholly impractical to involve the Senate in such detailed negotiations, the contract was handed over to FIA lawyers, who worked on it tirelessly over the weekend 27-28 June and gave comments during a three-hour conference call on Monday 29 June. Then the 350 pages of 25 June turned out not to be the final FOTA/FOA version and elements of a new version appeared, partly on 2 July, partly on 3 July.
Again, FIA lawyers worked over the weekend on 4-5 July, as did FIA President Max Mosley and FIA Deputy President (sport) Nick Craw. Further comments were then given on a three and a half hour lawyers' call on Monday 6 July and again in a conference call yesterday, 8 July, following the circulation of further drafts. Further significant progress was made yesterday evening in yet another conference call.
At present it seems probable that a final draft of the 2009 Concorde Agreement will be agreed and ready for signature in the coming days.[/quote]
FIA Press Release: 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship - Setting the Record Straight
To "put the record straight" as the FIA claim, here is the WMSC press release from 24 June which states that all FOTA teams have been entered for 2010, without any conditions attached:
In addition, the FIA claim that Ferrari, Red Bull and Toro Rosso have unconditional entries based on pre-exisiting contracts.
So for the FIA to claim that all 8 FOTA teams are not entered for 2010 goes against their previous stance and press releases.
The FIA have responded to FOTA's statement.
[BOX=400]Before FOTA’s decision to walk out of yesterday’s Technical Working Group meeting, the President of the FIA wrote twice to the President of FOTA to remind him that any amendments to the 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship regulations were subject to the unanimous approval of the five teams that had already entered for next season under the rules as published.
This is because of the International Sporting Code and also because the entered teams have a contract with the FIA which not even the General Assembly or the World Council can abrogate. Anyone with an elementary knowledge of motor sport governance knows this. Imagine the uproar if, after the FOTA teams had entered, the World Council were subsequently to change the rules without asking them.
It follows that the agreement of the five teams currently entered in the 2010 World Championship to all 2010 rule changes is required. To suggest that FOTA were only made aware of this during the meetings of yesterday is quite simply untrue. So is the implicit claim that they were all unaware of one of motor sport’s basic principles.
As things stand, the current members of the F1 Technical and Sporting Working Groups, in relation to 2010 are the teams which have entered the 2010 Championship. However the 8 FOTA teams were invited to the meetings in order that all 13 teams could agree the 2010 Sporting and Technical Regulations which would then be the so-called ‘stable regulations’ in a new Concorde Agreement. The SWG took place in the morning on this basis and much progress was made. However in the afternoon the FOTA teams walked out of the TWG. Nevertheless the five entered teams were able to confirm the changes agreed by the World Council in Paris on 24 June, as announced yesterday.
It has always been the FIA's understanding that the FOTA teams wanted a Concorde Agreement in place before entering the 2010 Championship. Once entered, the FOTA teams could no longer threaten a breakaway because of the contractual position mentioned above.
The basis for the FIA agreeing to drop plans for a cost cap was the proposal prepared by the Williams team over the Silverstone weekend which would allow an agreed reduction of expenditure to the level of the early 1990s by the end of 2011 to be dealt with by the teams themselves. This reduction was agreed by FOTA and confirmed by them in Paris on 24 June. This would be a private, legally-enforceable contract involving all the teams, but not the FIA. The FIA confirmed in Paris that once this agreement is in place, the cost cap provisions can be removed from the 2010 Sporting Regulations.
The deal that the FIA reached with FOTA in Paris was to extend the 1998 Concorde Agreement with some minor amendments to the governance section. This would have put in place an F1 Commission to deal with future rules with any major question going to the FIA Senate.
However, on 25 June, instead of the 1998 Agreement with some minor amendments, the FIA received 350 pages of a completely new Concorde Agreement.
It being wholly impractical to involve the Senate in such detailed negotiations, the contract was handed over to FIA lawyers, who worked on it tirelessly over the weekend 27-28 June and gave comments during a three-hour conference call on Monday 29 June. Then the 350 pages of 25 June turned out not to be the final FOTA/FOA version and elements of a new version appeared, partly on 2 July, partly on 3 July.
Again, FIA lawyers worked over the weekend on 4-5 July, as did FIA President Max Mosley and FIA Deputy President (sport) Nick Craw. Further comments were then given on a three and a half hour lawyers' call on Monday 6 July and again in a conference call yesterday, 8 July, following the circulation of further drafts. Further significant progress was made yesterday evening in yet another conference call.
At present it seems probable that a final draft of the 2009 Concorde Agreement will be agreed and ready for signature in the coming days.[/quote]
FIA Press Release: 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship - Setting the Record Straight
To "put the record straight" as the FIA claim, here is the WMSC press release from 24 June which states that all FOTA teams have been entered for 2010, without any conditions attached:
WMSC Press Release: World Motor Sport Council
In addition, the FIA claim that Ferrari, Red Bull and Toro Rosso have unconditional entries based on pre-exisiting contracts.
So for the FIA to claim that all 8 FOTA teams are not entered for 2010 goes against their previous stance and press releases.
More snippets of information are emerging...
An interesting development which will only serve to raise Max's ire even more no doubt.
As the Autosport article suggests, I feel now it's very much a case of Max goes or FOTA goes.
I don't think that both of them can remain in the same series any longer.
Full story: FOTA pushing ahead with breakaway
So FOTA are now bypassing Max and the FIA (and possibly Bernie) and talking directly with CVC?
An interesting development which will only serve to raise Max's ire even more no doubt.
As the Autosport article suggests, I feel now it's very much a case of Max goes or FOTA goes.
I don't think that both of them can remain in the same series any longer.
Full story: FOTA pushing ahead with breakaway
When you've got your compromise, Max, don't do the one thing that will pee it up the wall. Eeijit!
FOTA have no voting rights... What do you think you're doing? What does that solve?
FOTA have no voting rights... What do you think you're doing? What does that solve?
The final, final, no we really mean it, it's the last one, honest guv, entry list was published by the FIA today*.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2010/Pages/f1_2010_entry.aspx
There was also this statement concerning US F1 and Stefan GP:
* The entry list may or may not change before the first race in Bahrain
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2010/Pages/f1_2010_entry.aspx
There was also this statement concerning US F1 and Stefan GP:
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/f1releases/2010/Pages/f1_teams.aspx
* The entry list may or may not change before the first race in Bahrain
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