Should only one car score points in the WCC?

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
There was a time in the constructors championship where only the lead car from each team would score points towards the constructors title.

It strikes me that this is a better method of scoring for the teams since it means there is a far greater chance that at least some points will be scored. A 1-2 finish for Red Bull for example and a double DNF for Ferrari has a huge consequence on the WCC where as there is less damage done by a single car scoring. Also, since double DNF's are far less likely to happen there is also less of an effect caused by the loss of a single car.

Another advantage as far as I see it is that teams would maybe reduce team orders to some extent. Again there is a) less damage done by a double DNF if both drivers take each other out, and b) less worry within the team about which car finishes ahead so long as one of their cars does.

Scoring a single car for the WCC would place scoring points in the WDC further into the hands of the driver which could make a team driver further down the field push harder knowing that his mistake would only effect his title challenge and not the teams. It takes a bit of weight from the driver.

Finally, the current WCC looks like this:

Red Bull 355
Mclaren 243
Ferrari 192

Mclaren have 68.5% of Red Bulls points
Ferrari have 54.1% of Red Bulls points

If single car scoring was re-introduced then:

Red Bull 219
Mclaren 180
Ferrari 142

Mclaren now have 82% of Red Bulls points
Ferrari now have 64.8% of Red Bulls points

The best car is still leading but the championship is a lot closer.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Great idea!

It's almost like having single car teams for the WCC, but still having 2 drivers who can compete for the WDC.

Does anyone know why single car scoring was dropped in favour of both cars scoring?
 

Road of Bones

MTC Mole
Contributor
In the current era of bullet-proof reliability, this is actually a very sound idea. It would also promote some bitter intra-team rivalry (think Senna/Prost or Mansell/Piquet), and push the front-running teams towards having two ultra-competitive drivers. The only downside I can see is that you'll never see the next Hamilton stepping straight into a race-winning car, as I could never envisage a grandee team taking a punt on a rookie with so much at stake.

Can't see FOTA ever agreeing to this though...:unsure:
 

VanChallis

Points Scorer
This is actually a great idea, and with the uber-reliability of the cars these days it makes it makes it an even better idea. As bones said though, I can't see FOTA being too thrilled about the idea
 

RasputinLives

Leave me alone I'm on Smoko
Contributor
I'll have to think about this one.

I'm not sure about the team orders situation being reduced. Red Bull would still have told Webber to stay behind Vettel because they were worried about them taking each other out - and even if one car only scores they'd still lose points. Then if you look at Massa and Alonso in Germany the year before that was all about the WDC and the one car rule would have made no difference.

My worry would be that it would lead to teams only concentrating on development where one of their cars is concerened. I think every team would have a number 1 driver and a number 2 driver and you'd end up splitting the field into 2 competitions.
 

ExtremeNinja

Karting amateur
Contributor
Absolutely fantastic idea! A brilliant solution which encourages competition, eradicates a lot of the politics which get in the way of the racing and stops teams from giving up half way through the season. This would be a massive win for the teams, the drivers, the fans and the sport in general.

Such a good idea that I Tweeted, Facebooked and Google +1'd the post.

(Those share links should be repeated at the top of the page by the way. Top-right, floated next to the headline. Bro, take note.)
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
It strikes me that this is a better method of scoring for the teams since it means there is a far greater chance that at least some points will be scored. A 1-2 finish for Red Bull for example and a double DNF for Ferrari has a huge consequence on the WCC where as there is less damage done by a single car scoring. Also, since double DNF's are far less likely to happen there is also less of an effect caused by the loss of a single car.

----------------------------

Sorry but I don't agree with your premise. "a Red Bull 1-2 and double DNF for Ferrari has a huge consequence on the WCC..."
And so it should have! They 'd have two cars, if both of them fail... well tough. Both cars penalised because they didn't make it to the finish.
A system with only one car would be artificial, unfair and could make a mockery of the constructors championship. Car A wins a race and team-mate takes second. Same thing happens at loads of race.
Driver could finish seecond behind his team-mate several times and yet none of his points would count for the WCC.
That really would be making a mockery of the whole thing, especially if his team gets beaten by another who only have 1 driver raking up all the points (which incidentally in the context of a WDC would be guaranteed to increase team-orders, not reduce them).

There's nothing wrong with the current system in my view. If it ain't broke...
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
In the current era of bullet-proof reliability, this is actually a very sound idea. It would also promote some bitter intra-team rivalry (think Senna/Prost or Mansell/Piquet), and push the front-running teams towards having two ultra-competitive drivers.

1972. Lotus Ford-Cosworth win the Constructors Championship. Their 61 points come from Drivers' Champion Emerson Fittipaldi. No other Lotus driver reaches the points that year.

In other words, Ferrari would have even less of a reason to give two tosses what Felipe Massa is doing, so long as Alonso is winning they take their full points.

1986-89 (the Mansell/Piquet and Senna/Prost years) were held with the current system.

Some of the conclusions about this system are sketchy at best.
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
Scoring a single car for the WCC would place scoring points in the WDC further into the hands of the driver which could make a team driver further down the field push harder knowing that his mistake would only effect his title challenge and not the teams. It takes a bit of weight from the driver.

Finally, the current WCC looks like this:

Red Bull 355
Mclaren 243
Ferrari 192

Mclaren have 68.5% of Red Bulls points
Ferrari have 54.1% of Red Bulls points

If single car scoring was re-introduced then:

Red Bull 219
Mclaren 180
Ferrari 142

Mclaren now have 82% of Red Bulls points
Ferrari now have 64.8% of Red Bulls points

The best car is still leading but the championship is a lot closer.

--------------------------------

hmmmm, well not really.
It may look closer but it isn't... since only car car scores points!
 

Incubus

Champion Elect
Great idea!

It's almost like having single car teams for the WCC, but still having 2 drivers who can compete for the WDC.

Does anyone know why single car scoring was dropped in favour of both cars scoring?

--------------------------------------

That was the case until 1979 but it only became known as the constructors world championship. in 1980. Before that it was called the international cup of F1 manufacturers since it began in 1958.
 

Josh

Champion Elect
Not a fan of this idea. The WCC is a team effort and if one or both of your cars fails to finish a race then someone or something in your team has failed. If another team does have both cars finish the race then that team was better.

Like if we take your example, Massa and Alonso both can't finish the race but Vettel and Webber have a 1-2, doesn't this mean that RB is simply the better team on that day and therefore should get all the points?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
--------------------------------

hmmmm, well not really.
It may look closer but it isn't... since only car scores points!
It's much closer.

355 - 243 = 112 / 43 = 2.6

219 - 180 = 39 / 25 = 1.6

So with the current system, McLaren are 2.6 1-2 finishes behind Red Bull, without Red Bull scoring another point.
With the proposed system, McLaren are 1.6 wins behind Red Bull.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
I have a burning question here?

Which car will be selected as the points scorer? this will raise a few issues;

1] Do teams have to nominate a car to be the points car?
2] Is it fixed or is it highest finisher gets the points?
3] It kind of links in, but if one car is designated and finishes lower than the other or DNF's, which scores points?
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Sarinade.

The origninal method of scoring for the WCC was that the car that finished in the highest position scored points towards the WCC crown.

This, as has been pointed out above, lead to some interesting seasons where only one driver scored all the points towards winning the title, I.E. Fittipaldi in 72 and Clark in 65.

What it also allowed for is teams to run more than two cars. BRM ran a team of up to 5 cars at one point in the early 70's and obviously that would have been unfair if they all scored points relative to a two car team.

One of the things that FOTA have long been pushing for is to run more than 2 cars from each team so a rule limiting the number of cars that could contribute towards the WCC would have to be implemented if that was allowed any way.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
=

If single car scoring was re-introduced then:

Red Bull 219
Mclaren 180
Ferrari 142

How does that work out? If:

Vettel has 216 points

Hamilton has 134 points

And Alonso with 130

Or is it just the highest points scorer that gets nominated?

Personally can't say I am a fan of this idea...and agree with Incubus and Rasputin', as I think it's an unfair situation to the team that scores the most points with "both" drivers.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Because Sly, Its a combination of the best finishes of each car.

I.e. there has been one race so far this season where Webber Finished ahead of Vettel therefore for that race Webbers points count.

Same for Mclaren.

It's based on the highest finish for any car within the team not a single driver.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
I'm still thinking about the pro's and con's of this but I have three observations thus far:

1) No change to the constructors points system will in any way affect how hard the drivers work or try or persevere, etc, etc.
The idea that a driver can keep their seat in F1 without making the commensurate effort in return for the status of the job and the money it pays is, well sorry to put it this way but ... daft. Not only that, when a driver feels it's not worth trying or dying for, that is when they usually retire.

I would accept that if a driver is consistently coming in behind their team mate, scoring fewer points for themselves and none at all for the team, they just might get demoralised and that indeed might affect the quality of their effort. Not in a positive way, I suspect.

2) My other thought is prompted by Cider & T's comment with regard to teams running more than two cars. We could look at it from another angle since, in theory having only one car scoring WCC points smaller teams could concentrate their efforts on running just one car enabling them to develop at a faster rate and become competitive sooner rather than later.

3) If this is about finding a way to keep the championship battle tighter, I'm not sure it would make it any more exciting or interesting for most people since it's really the car and driver combination that really grabs the interest. How many care that much about the constructors championship? It occurs to me that I quickly forget how McLaren or Williams (or other teams I have a soft spot for) faff their championships but I never seem to forget how they faffed it up for their drivers if they don't get one of them to the WDC!
 
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