Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

 

[teabagyokel]

Bill Boddy - Fangio wasn't actually in the lead of any of those races in 1950 he didn't win when he retired from them. Farina was.

Is the next impossible task Vettel has to face the one where he only races 6 times in a season.

 

[RasputinLives]

Ferrari are a mess. They were awful on car development this year and the car has steadily slipped back down the grid until its about 5th or 6th fastest. Their star driver has looked increasingly more frustrated to the point in now looking less and less bothered and they think the solution to that is to bring another rooster into the hen house. A rooster I may add that that is a bit crook and they paid to kick out the coop a few years back. I admire your faith in Rory Byrne but I'm afraid, with their staff and budget, Ferrari can't be described as anything but a mess.

This however is the Vettel thread so lets discuss it somewhere else.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think I'll wait until how next season pans out with the new engines and no coanda exhaust blowing and the different driving styles that will be necessary before I start counting how many championships any particular driver may or may not win in an unknown future...

 

[Bill Boddy]

There were more instances of drivers overtaking for the lead in those days teabagyokel. You could never say that you had beaten Fangio before taking the chequered flag.

 

[siffert_fan]

Don't forget that Fangio could, and occasionally did, take over a teammates' car in mid-race when something went awry with his own.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Vettel wouldn't want to take over Marks car, it isn't as fast or as reliable as his although he did take over a bit of it at Silverstone once...

 

[Blog Zbod]

Vettel wouldn't want to take over Marks car, it isn't as fast or as reliable as his although he did take over a bit of it at Silverstone once...

Not to mention he'd need a booster seat to see over the steering wheel.

 

[teabagyokel]

Mephistopheles - Or so some would have you believe!

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think I'm going to have to find a tongue in cheek smiley...

 

[Greenlantern101]

I know there isn't a lot of love for Seb especially in the UK the home of CTA. but really it is mostly because he is Jensons and Hamiltons biggest rival, certainly in the last few years. I am not a fan he has some aspects of his character that are unappealing to me such as his ruthlessness and inability to play the team game. But he is also funny,charismatic, super fast, a show man and rarely makes mistakes. It is difficult for me to not appreciate Sebastian. I saw his race back in 2007 in Japan and China with Toro Rosso and said to my dad at the time that he was going to be world champion. he has always looked special.

Its just amazing that he has now taken 9 races in a row in one season. A record that has never been equalled. Yes it has a lot to do with the car, but what WDC hasn't had a good car.

What I want to see now is him in the third or fourth best car and see how he performs. It is easy to be in awe of Schumacher, Senna and Jim Clark, but despite Sebs record in the last 4 years I still don't rank him up there with the best and its only because he has never had a truly equal team mate. Webber in 2010 was good. But no Senna Prost or Mansell Piquet or Alonso Hamilton.

Like I said I am in awe of his 9 race streak but I don't really like him. Maybe if he was less of a knob on the radio it would help.

But yeh well done Seb. Hope you have a shitty 2014.

 

[Plutus]

I know there isn't a lot of love for Seb especially in the UK the home of CTA. but really it is mostly because he is Jensons and Hamiltons biggest rival, certainly in the last few years. I am not a fan he has some aspects of his character that are unappealing to me such as his ruthlessness and inability to play the team game.

His ruthlessness to me is one of the most appealing characteristics. It's what I want and expect from an F1 driver and it is also what makes him so successful.

I am not a fan of his either but one must respect his performances, he is an outstanding talent.

I hope he has more competition for 2014, may the best one win.

 

[Greenlantern101]

You can be fair and a champion, many have done so before. Ruthlessness is the reason I found Schumacher so unpalatable. That and his lack of charisma and his cheating. But yes as I said I am awe of his records. As for his team mate next year my hopes are rather deflated. If it had been Kimi, excited, Ricciardo, deflated.

 

[Plutus]

You can be fair and a champion, many have done so before. Ruthlessness is the reason I found Schumacher so unpalatable. That and his lack of charisma and his cheating. But yes as I said I am awe of his records. As for his team mate next year my hopes are rather deflated. If it had been Kimi, excited, Ricciardo, deflated.

The Webber - Vettel incident at Malaysia, a case for me which was ok. The sport is about winning and he was the fast driver, why should he hand Webber the win. Webber has stated he wants to win fair and square but in that case it wouldn't have been such a win, it would have been Vettel following Webber to the finish line and letting him win.

You cannot compare Vettel with Schumacher, he was disgusting at times, he had an absolute disrespect towards his opponents (Villeneuve 1997, Monaco 2006) and the sport itself.

 

[Plutus]

You can't compare Vettels ruthlessness with Schumachers, of course he shows similar traits but there is great difference.

 

[Hamberg]

I don't think anyone dislikes him or even questions his abilities anymore. It's the predictability, lack of competition, premature end to the season and monotony people are bored with, not him, his circumstance.

 

[rufus_mcdufus]

I actually really like Seb and don't have an issue with any of his irritating (winfinger etc. though the Crazy Frog ring a ding was annoying). I just wish he wouldn't keep on winning!

 

[siffert_fan]

I'm not a fan of any of the current drivers, but I just wish the non-RB drivers would quit their whining and up their games. Ascribing most of Vettel's success to the car is, to me, rather unfair as nobody knows how much he has contributed to its' development. There is no doubt that it wouldn't be the car it is today without his input. Even Newey has said just that (of course, the denigraters claim that he is just saying that, and its' truthfulness is open to question).

As for his ruthlessness, that is frequently in the makeup of successful people, whatever field they are in. I don't believe it is as pronounced in Seb as it was in Senna and Schumacher, both of whom proved willing to use underhanded tactics on occasion, while I am unaware of Seb doing so.

2014 gives all of the teams a chance to rise to the challenge, and I presume they have been working on next years' car for the last half of this season, hence the relative lack of improvement. Ferrari will be the one to watch. With the return of Byrne, who proved himself to be at least the equal of Newey during the Schumacher years, Alonso will have no excuses next year, IMHO.

 

[teabagyokel]

There have been cars as dominant as the Red Bull of 2013. Red ones, blue ones, white ones, silver ones.

The only other driver who got 9 in a row was essentially in F1's only car.

 

[Plutus]

As for his ruthlessness, that is frequently in the makeup of successful people, whatever field they are in. I don't believe it is as pronounced in Seb as it was in Senna and Schumacher, both of whom proved willing to use underhanded tactics on occasion, while I am unaware of Seb doing so.

He hasn't deliberately taken anyone out of a race yet either. Unlike Schumacher or Senna.

 

[KekeTheKing]

Sebastian said it best, "Remember these days". We wont be seeing this kind of scenario again. I'm glad I've witnessed it once, and I'd rather not see it again. Enjoy it Seb!