Sebastian Vettel

Lots of threads have alluded to having a discussion about the current world champion so lets get it all off our collective chests (oooeer!)

Lots has been has been written about this young man from his testing debut with BMW Sauber in 2006 aged just 19 - he then progressed to the the toro rosso team for his first full race season in 2008 - the memorable race being his drive in the wet at Fuji where he managed to rear end his future team mate Mark Webber who said ""It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they :censored: fuck it all up." - Little was Mark to know he would be paired with the "Kid" just 2 years later.

His maiden win came at the 2008 Italian GP where he qualified up from, the race started under the safety car in the rain and the young German led from start to finish in the Toro Rosso - becoming the youngest winner of a grand prix ever.

Then we enter the era of the Red Bull. In 2009 he joined the Red Bull team, which got off to a torrid start as he managed to crash into Kubika in Australia, a feat he would go on to repeat during the 09 season.

Last year needs no mention........

So to the crux of the matter. Is Sebastian Vettel?

the real deal, the baby schumi, the new pretender - a genuine racer? - aka Wunderkind

or

A very quick driver, who lucked into a very fast car and can bang it on pole and lead from lights to flag and be the quickest pilot of a car, yet can't overtake for toffee? aka WunOrAother

035336-pn-image-sport-sebastian-vettel.jpg
 
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Brogan said:
So Vettel wanted a big pay check to match what he has received over the past few years and based on results, specifically 2019, Ferrari said GTFO!
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Unlikely, it is assumed that Ferrari only offered him a one-year deal whilst Vettel was pushing for a multi-year contract. Plus a pay-cut would have been inevitable based on his results and on the current global financial struggles.
 
Vettel chucks in the towel rather than race for Ferrari in whatever this season becomes. Alonso drives instead, manages to land a seat for 2021 with Renault and makes several podium slots before winning the championship in 2022.
 
Titch said:
Can I have some of whatever you’re drinking gethinceri .
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true that sounds far fetched & would be weird maybe something wrong with the sport if we ended up with 2 drivers in there 40's + a 37yr old on the grid in 2022 but imagine in 2007, describing the story of brawn success. a film would reject that for being unrealistic :D

& alonso is too good to just be on just 2 world titles
 
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RasputinLives said:
Alonso got the exact amount of titles he deserved
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the man yes, it was his own fault that he became too toxic to touch in a way i havent seen with any other driver

but the talent he was throughout his career 1 of the best on the grid. shown by his last year how he finished above ocon & leclerc on championship table is beyond me. he shoudve won more
 
F1 is littered with drivers who could have, should have or would have and many were far more deserving than the stroppy Spaniard who seemed to believe that winning was a right not something to be earned.

Does anyone honestly believe Alonso knew nothing of Crashgate before, during or immediately after?

No one made Alonso hand over envelopes stuffed with 1000 euros to his mechanics as incentives to beat Hamilton in 2007 or discuss revealing information in email conversations.

As Greg Lake once sang

"The Christmas you get you deserve"
 
F1Brits_90 Believe it or not Alonso the man really doesn't reflect my view on him. The toxic elements of his personality are there to see but frankly I'm pretty sure all racing drivers have those due to their egos it's just that some hide them better than others. The problem I have with Alonso is that we really just don't know how good he is or ever was.

Since his early days he has had this amazingly effective PR team that have presented us with the picture that Fernando is driving beyond a car that is not as good as the competition. They say it so often that the commentators start to repeat it and then the fans start to repeat it - other drivers also say it because they have the same PR team and motives and it enforces it. However it is actually impossible for us to tell whether it is correct or not because in every season he has had in F1 - bar 2007 - Fernando has had preferential treatment over a team mate, not even just the normal number 1 and 2 stuff but the you'll move over for me/ruin your race to improve mine/have the lesser car/crash into a wall so I win sort of preferential treatment. So therefore it is actually impossible to tell how good the car actually is and whether he is really performing above where it should be. In itself this is a very clever PR tactic.

The other thing you have to ask yourself is if he continually had these bad cars and he was at the team for a long period of time then why were they bad? How good could he have been if he couldn't help develop the car? Also it's interesting to note that - apart from Renault - every time Alonso has left a team their results the following year have taken an up turn.

I just don't know. 2 titles is enough for Fernando I think. You could argue too many I think.
 
cider_and_toast said:
Does anyone honestly believe Alonso knew nothing of Crashgate before, during or immediately after?
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i think Alonso got off lightly there as i think it was too convenient for his pitstop for him to not know

RasputinLives you make some great points. you might be right, the upturn is a weird one undoubtedly & never thought about his developmental skills

but the stats are there in same way as kubica v Russell. you can only beat your teammate & Alonso outqualified a highly regarded vandoorne 26 consecutive times. then he won the monaco GP twice. couldve won indy 500 on debut & impressed at dakar in 2019
 
But I don't believe that to be a fair reflection because I know how his other team mates got treated so I'm 100% sure Vandoorne was handicapped. It goes all the way back to Fisichella. I believe it was a very good management strategy to ensure Fernando had this higher ranking in the team written into his contract - that way he thrashes his team mate whether he is winning or not. Then when it comes to contact time or sponsor time he can chuck the stats out. The only time it didn't happen was 2007 and look how he and his team reacted. It was all very Flavio.

In fact the Falvio connection and the team mate connection is probably why they took on Fisichella for Renault rather than Webber as was rumoured was going to happen. They'd already chucked Trulli out mid-season.
 
maybe but 2007 yes, but button in 2015 beat alonso so shows it was possible.

but i dont get the handicapped thing because why would they spend $5m a weekend to not give the guy a fair go. if youve lost confidence you get rid
 
So, it emerged over the weekend that Vettel was never offered a contract for Ferrari in 2021.

Given that he was pictured speaking with Red Bull (without masks) over the weekend, i would assume that Vettel is going to find himself as Max Verstappen’s teammate. I’d imagine that he’ll make a season there before realising that he’s been outclassed, and head to retirement!
 
I'm not so sure that Vettel will end up at Red Bull. Max's dad may not be too keen on the idea of having him as a team mate for his son. It would prove once and for all that the Red Bull Young driver program is non existent and Albon has several more races to make his mark because Vettel has no other decent options.
 
cider_and_toast said:
I'm not so sure that Vettel will end up at Red Bull. Max's dad may not be too keen on the idea of having him as a team mate for his son. It would prove once and for all that the Red Bull Young driver program is non existent and Albon has several more races to make his mark because Vettel has no other decent options.
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I hope I’m wrong about Vettel and Red Bull - I think it will be a real waste for Albon - who doesn’t seem to be on Max’s level, but is doing a much better job than was expected!
 
Just a reminder that Albon was actually dropped from their driver programme and signed for a race seat after a few years on his own. Red Bull want people to forget that.
 
Vettel will only go to Red Bull if Verstappen leaves but even then it is backward step for Red Bull given their tradition in signing up and coming drivers not re-sign has beens

Renault are soon to confirm Alonso so its retirement or Mercedes but he needs to do a lot better than Sunday to be considered
 
No one suggesting Vettel to Williams then? Merc engines and he could encourage Adrian Newey to go back there as well...
 

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