Red Bull accuse Ferrari of having a manually adjustable ride height system

[Brogan]

A minor point bit the McLaren cars weren't illegal as they complied fully with the reg's.
The team was guilty of using IP from another team, just as Renault were in the same season.

The actual penalties were applied because McLaren apparently weren't totally honest with the FIA, not for having illegal cars or even having the Ferrari IP.

 

[siffert_fan]

True enough, except the IP included pit strategies etc,which gave McLaren invaluable insights into Red Menace plans, and both drivers undoubtedly profited from that.

 

[Kewee]

siffert_fan......If you knew the point Brogan makes is "true enough" why continue to repeat misinformation regarding the McLaren scandal of 2007. People with very limited knowledge of what happened, also repeated information that was not even close to being a half-truth regarding Alonso's role in the affair, destroying much of his reputation in many peoples eyes. It's a credit to him that he ignored them all and did his talking on the track, rebuilding his reputation both on and off the track in the process.

 

[racecub]

siffert_fan Lewis wasn't involved in the emails, only Alonso and DeLa Rosa. Yet Lewis paid a heavy price that season, probably heavier than is realised. It wasnt the biggest cheating in history, it was the biggest stitch up in history.

 

[The Artist.....]

racecub
Lewis never admitted to being involved with the e-mails and was never implicated. This is a step away from being able to categorically state that he was not involved (but it is also impossible to prove that he was). What I will say is that if the team benefitted, then everyone in the team benefitted... However, in that case, McLaren were very foolish to state categorically that there was no Ferrari IP in McLaren's hands. (And to state that they had a thorough investigation!).... But the FIA has a history of coming down very heavily when they are lied to... BARgate (When a truckie told the stewards that the car had no fuel in, but actually there was still the "secret tank"), McLarengate, and Hamiltongate....

However, this is all off-topic considering this is about Red Bull accusing Ferrari of cheating... Pot and Kettle comes to mind...

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

The actual penalties were applied because McLaren apparently weren't totally honest with the FIA, not for having illegal cars or even having the Ferrari IP.

Red Bull... McLaren.... Ferrari.... Renault.... all guilty in the High Court of CTA of being dirty at one time or another... the only hope is for Renault, nee Lotus now... the other teams still have the same management pretty much intact from their sordid pasts...

 

[siffert_fan]

Kewee

The "true enough" onlly means that there was nothing on the cars that violated regulations, it does NOT mean that there were not items on the cars which reflected stolen ideas. A world of difference. It is also true that Mosley thought the transgression severe enough that he wanted to ban McLaren from participating in 2008.

KNowing the oppositions pit strategies ahead of time confer a considerable advantage upon an entire team, whether one particular individual is privy to that knowledge or not. The team results profit from such knowledge.

Having been the victim of IP theft, I, evidently unlike you, do not think it a small matter.

 

[Kewee]

siffert_fan........I didn't suggest it was a small matter. On this side of the world I've spent considerable amounts of money protecting brands I own both in New Zealand and Australia. Believe me I was far from happy with McLaren throughout the entire affair. I was also very aware that Alonso was dragged into a scandal he wanted no part of and was not of his making, and received a huge amount of criticism for his involvement. His career was also put under threat if he didn't cooperate with the FIA. He was caught between a rock and a hard place and payed dearly for it when the press went on the attack going to print with misinformation that suited their purposes. As far as I'm concerned I would sooner see the past left where it belongs. The only people that know what happened are Alonso and some, but not all McLaren insiders. My understanding is part of the agreement freeing Alonso from his contract with McLaren was the condition he remained silent. Mind you I don't think Alonso is particularly interested in living in the past, maybe we should do the same. It's worth noting Martin Whitmarsh's interview when he stated, his biggest regret in his 25 years with McLaren was losing Alonso, who he called one of the finest drivers of the modern era. He went on to say they handled the situation very badly. Incidentally there is no evidence to suggest McLaren's cars included any stolen ideas in their designs, in fact the FIA have the power to demand a redesign of a car that has benefited from theft from another team, in this case they didn't make any such demands of McLaren.

 

[RickD]

What I want to know is why this thread has turned into a McLaren/Alonso thread, surely it was about Red Bull cheating and their Naive finger pointing at that other team, you know the Red ones that have had lots of illegal things on their cars over the years..

 

[Kewee]

RickD.......Very good point RickD. My fault for bringing Alonso into it, someone else included Ferrari in the mix a while ago.