Red Bull accuse Ferrari of having a manually adjustable ride height system

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
In the latest twist in Red Bull's season, they are now accusing Ferrari of having a similar system to that which was found on their own cars.

Ferrari have denied it so I wonder if the FIA will actively investigate or whether they will wait for an official protest?

It seems a strange claim to make unless Red Bull are fairly certain of it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101690
 

canis

Race Winner
Valued Member
Is this another case of Helmut saying something that is blatantly not true? Really? You do surprise me :p

He does have a habit of trying to divert attenion away from their interpretation of the rules to other teams and then remarkably when people turn back to look at the RedBull the car is suddenly within the rules, hopefully the FIA are not falling for it this time...
 

Kewee

Race Winner
I doubt anyone takes Helmut Marko seriously. He's got a loose mouth that damages Red Bull and he now seems intent on tainting the entire sport. None of the Red Bull investigations recently have been the result of teams complaints, they've been triggered by the FIA. It's time the other team principles issued a joint statement rejecting the accusations being leveled at them by Christian Horner and Helmut Marko and furthermore the FIA should issue a strong statement warning Red Bull if they push the regulations beyond there limits again they will start deducting constructors points. In my opinion the seems ample evidence to justify losing constructors points already. >:(:sick:
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I am not ready to completely dismiss the allegations, even though the originator has little credibility. It would be an easy "cheat" to adopt and hide.

As for allegations originating from the FIA and not teams, as I recall the current President of the FIA has rather strong ties to one particular F1 team. Therefore, I cannot totally dismiss the possibility of bias.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Is it just me or is this another classic example of daft F1 rule making? I presume this rule was introduced to prevent drivers altering the ride height of the car from behind the wheel since that is the only way I can see a manual ride height adjustment ability making any difference. So if that's the case they come up with a rule that the ride height adjustment must need to be done using a tool and suitable effort! So there is nothing to stop a team constructing a single nut system at the front and rear of the car that can be adjusted with a simple turn of a spanner during a pit stop to adjust ride height but you must use a spanner. So if the only time the manual adjustment rule would help is from a driver behind the wheel then why not just say "the ride height of the car may not be adjusted by the driver ". Or am I missing something?
 

Pyrope

Podium Finisher
Supporter
As for allegations originating from the FIA and not teams, as I recall the current President of the FIA has rather strong ties to one particular F1 team. Therefore, I cannot totally dismiss the possibility of bias.

He did, but they parted on somewhat less than amicable terms.

Or am I missing something?

I think the point of requiring a tool is that the suspension shouldn't be adjusted under parc fermé conditions, by any method. It is very difficult to hide when you are whipping out a three-quarter inch shifter to twiddle a lug nut, but flicking a catch or a surreptitious turn or two on a knurled shaft can be done much more subtly.
 

Pyrope

Podium Finisher
Supporter
It does tooncheese, but that still requires that you start the race and put in at least one lap before coming into the pits. Then you can change what you like. You can't change settings while sitting on the dummy grid.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I remember it was reported that Ferrari did have a manual ride height which the drivers adjusted at the pitstops back in 2010.

He could be right, but he should just keep his trap shut.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
It seems to me that the only way it could be set up for surrepititious alteration is if there are only two settings: high and low, and each would HAVE to have extremely positive stops, or the risk of overshooting the mark and thereby totally screwing the pooch would be too great.

Therefore I would think that, if the FIA detects more adjustability than that, it is highly unlikey that manual adjusting has been taking place
 

Pyrope

Podium Finisher
Supporter
All it takes is for there to be a small pneumatic chamber in the suspension linkage or in the damper and you could have knock off valve that does everything for you. Suspension could be effectively pre-loaded during quali, which would bring the car down and stiffen it up. Release the valve and the suspension returns to full travel, able to cope with the full fuel load. I don't think you need anything very technical or tricky to achieve that, and if the chamber is only either pressurised or unpressurised there are no adjustment issues either. Simple, quick, effective, and doesn't need any tools. Used to have a pair of mountain bike forks that did something similar, but the adjustment could be made up and down, in that case using a modified bike pump thingy.

I'd point out that I have no idea what's actually going on, but just making the point that you can envisage an engineering solution that would work.
 

Dizzi

Podium Finisher
Wasn't there a rumour going around in 2010 about Red Bull adjusting the ride height by pneumatics or hydraulics??
i think their constant DNFs at the beginning of the season with all the hydraulic failures sparked the debate...
 

Kewee

Race Winner
Helmut Marko's statement that Red Bull has never made adjustments to their cars by hand entirely misses the point. No one has accused them of doing so. The regulations state that it should not be possible to make changes in ride hight without the use of tools. The breech of the regulations relates to the cars design, not whether adjustments have or have not been made. Christian Horner uses the same argument. Now they make accusations against Ferrari in a misguided attempt to take the heat off themselves. Is there anyone else out there that's sick of having their intelligence insulted or am I the only one. :sick:
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
If I were the FIA, I would exclude Red Bull from all results since this system came in, then investigate Ferrari.

"You are accused of murder."
"So is Charles Manson"

Not a defence, is it?
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Oooh, controversial there teabagyokel

So are you saying that Red Bull's and Sebastian Vettel's titles are tainted/invalid?
After all, we don't know how long it has been on the car.
 

Kewee

Race Winner
The teams must be wondering how level the playing field they're competing on is. As fans many of us are now seriously wondering if Red Bulls results are being won fairly. One thing for sure, the arrogance within the Red Bull camp is breathtaking and doing the sports reputation no good at all. Reading various blogs on Planet F1, BBC, and many others in the British Press indicate that were Red Bull to win the title this year it would tainted in many peoples eyes, in fact there are some who will lose interest in the sport as long as Red Bull are involved. One sad aspect of this whole scenario is Adrian Newey, through his deep involvement with Red Bull will see his legacy darkened somewhat. Very sad for a man who has been a genius in his field.
 
Top Bottom