Technical Adjustable ride height - legal or illegal?

[Brogan]

Good points, FB.

Makes a mockery of the rules and sport though if a team can get away with cheating interpreting the rules in a way which makes them non-compliant with said rules.

 

[snowy]

Red bull's real secret weapon:

It’s been reported that Red Bull are following a practice that was used on turbo cars (i.e. the old F1 turbos and WRC cars) to keep the turbo spooled up. By means of retarding the ignition when the driver is on the overrun as he slows for a corner.

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/07/1 ... s-q3-pace/

 

[Brogan]

I read a similar thing on James Allen's site last week and again today.

One of Red Bull’s secrets is a setting on the Renault engine for use on the final crucial lap in qualifying, whereby the ignition is retarded on the over-run, which maintains exhaust gas pressure even when the driver lifts off the throttle. This maintains the performance of the blown diffuser and keeps the downforce up when it’s most needed. It thus avoids the main problem of an exhaust blown diffuser whereby when a driver lifts off the throttle for a corner, the downforce goes missing when you most need it and the rear stability changes.

It’s not something you can do for more than a lap or two as the temperatures go sky high, which damages the engine, but it gives that vital fraction of a second which keeps Red Bull ahead of the rest in qualifying.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/...ry-behind-red-bull-wing-and-mclaren-diffuser/

 

[snowy]

So what I'm wondering is how much thought McLaren has given this?...

 

[KekeTheKing]

This makes perfect sense to me. The Red Bull car that takes to the track in the waning minutes of qualifying is a completely different beast to the one that pulls up to the grid on Sunday.

Also, it was painfully obvious that when the McLaren drivers got out of the gas with the blown diffuser bolted on, the back end was severely disrupted and it was really trying to snap away.

Can other teams replicate this Red Bull/Renault phenomenon?

 

[Brogan]

Do the other teams want to replicate it?

Red Bull reliability is hardly anything to shout about so maybe it evens out in the long run?

There are still 9 races left to run and only 3 new engines left so by the end of the season some of those engines will have been stressed to the limit and we could see Red Bull taking grid penalties.

 

[jochenrindt]

Sounds like good old fashioned innovaion to me

 

[KekeTheKing]

Do the other teams want to replicate it?

Fair question. But their qualifying results have been staggering this year.

McLaren is pretty close to Red Bull in race trim, and if they could nick a couple of Pole's in the second half, I believe they can convert those to race win's without too much trouble. Unfortunately, snatching a pole from Red Bull at this point is going to be terribly difficult.

 

[Muddytalker]

I wouldn't be surprised if they used it occasionally during the race either; During Sunday's race, we noticed that Vettel was gaining 50m through Abbey despite being in the Force India's turbulent air.

It might be a coincidence, but [Memory Test]who's car/pit radio did we overhear a few races ago, where the engineer said "Use your overtake button"[/Memory Test]

 

[Brogan]

I wouldn't be surprised if they used it occasionally during the race either; During Sunday's race, we noticed that Vettel was gaining 50m through Abbey despite being in the Force India's turbulent air.

That was phenomenal.
I actually had a literal jaw dropping moment

It might be a coincidence, but [Memory Test]who's car/pit radio did we overhear a few races ago, where the engineer said "Use your overtake button"[/Memory Test]

Definitely one of the Red Bulls but I can't remember which one.

 

[snowy]

It might be a coincidence, but [Memory Test]who's car/pit radio did we overhear a few races ago, where the engineer said "Use your overtake button"[/Memory Test]

Definitely one of the Red Bulls but I can't remember which one.

Was it Sebastian in Turkey by any chance?

 

[Galahad]

I wouldn't be surprised if they used it occasionally during the race either; During Sunday's race, we noticed that Vettel was gaining 50m through Abbey despite being in the Force India's turbulent air.

Ah, but Abbey is a flat-out corner, so the diffuser would be getting a full blast of exhaust gas through there anyway. The ignition trick, if it indeed exists, would boost downforce in the slower corners where the driver is off the throttle, or only on part-throttle.

 

[Muddytalker]

Fair enough, G. A good point, well made.

 

[Galahad]

It might explain why the Red Bulls were so much faster than rest around Istanbul's turn 8 though - a corner that is nearly flat, but not quite. We may see this again at e.g. Pouhon at Spa. There's no doubt the car is producing incredible amounts of downforce, but only (apparently) at particular times.

 

[slickskid]

Rumour has it the Red Bull's were actually flat out round turn 8 in Turkey, i agree though would make it interesting on that section in Spa but at the moment i still see that race as being a bit more of a power/ low drag circuit.

 

[FB]

Perhaps the drivers need to revisit the way the throttle was used during the turbo days. I recall reading somewhere that part of the reason Senna was so fast in a turbo car was that he learned to "blip" the throttle, a bit like the MotoGP guys do, during slower corners which kept the turbo spinning making it at optimum speed when the car came out of the corner and needed to accelerate. As sort of extreme form of "heel & toe".

The problem here I suppose is with the semi-automatic boxes the cars now use you can't dip the clutch to allow you to rev the engine. Perhaps they need to put a 3rd pedal on the left of the cockpit...

 

[snowy]

Is what Red Bull are doing with their engine mapping, exhaust and blown diffuser the cause of their horsepower deficit? We never hear the Renault team complaining they haven't got enough horsepower...