Quali VS Race

[RayInTorontoCanada]

...the records books will show that Nico finished 6th and Schumi finished 5th.

2 years from now...5 years from now...10 years from now...NO ONE will care which of the two finished 5th or 6th. No one.

And when they write the history of Mercedes GP, they will write:

"Nico took on the superior Red Bulls, McLarens and Ferraris of the Big Boys at the Sharp End with Honour with an almighty 1st lap at the epic Spa-Francorchamps crcuit - and without the aid of "DRS"...He brought Honour to the Silver Arrows and led the race from 5th on the grid ahead of all 5 Formula One World Champions on the grid that day. It was a glimpse of things to come from The Three Pointed Star in Grand Prix racing!"

They won't write a single line of who finished 5th or 6th or whatever 'cause no one'll care.

 

[FB]

Only if you write it Ray. Also, I've never seen a history book which underlines anything for emphasis, comedic effect, poor grammar, anything. Maybe Canadian history books are different?

 

[RasputinLives]

There is a differnece between a history book and a records book.

A history book has a description of what events took place in certain times gone.

A record book shows stats and figures - these are the one's most consulted for sports like F1. That will show Schumacher 5th and Rosberg 6th.

in 1962 Jim Clark won the Belgium Grand Prix. Ricardo Rodriguez came 4th. Tell me (without googling) did he lead the Grand Prix at any point?

Anyways Ray - thanks for taking us off topic.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Only if you write it Ray. Also, I've never seen a history book which underlines anything for emphasis, comedic effect, poor grammar, anything. Maybe Canadian history books are different?

I already used italics so couldn't do anything else.

Anyways Ray - thanks for taking us off topic.

I took us off topic?

So, anyway, if I were a team principal and I were asked to sign one of those two (at, say, $8 Million Per Year) based on "qually and race" in 2011, i'd chose Nico to take on Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Button, Webber and Co.

I wouldn't sign Schumacher based on 2011 "qually and race" and i couldn't care less that he finished 5th in Belgium.

Mercedes came back to win races...and the only guy who's remotely put the car well up on the grid ("qually") consistently and come close to challenging the big guns straight up on Sundays ("race") is Nico. And, again, I couldn't care less that he finished 6th in Belgium.

Perhaps Nico isn't an Ace but he's proven better overall than Schumi.

[If I really had my way and had $20 Million to sign someone, I'd put either Vettel or Hamilton in the car and see how good or how poor my design staff is.]

 

[RasputinLives]

Ray - no one has said that Schumahcer has had a better season than Rosberg - just that Schumacher had a better race in Spa than him. You have a weird way of reading things.

And yeah off topic because its about quali vs race not you hating Schumi

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Is this thread about "qually/race" in general...or only about "qually/race" specifically at Spa?

I don't hate Schumi. And, besides, "hating" has noting to do with season-long data or 1-and-a-half seasons worth of data.

 

[Vortex]

Ray, if it had been Rosberg who had started 24th and made his way up to 5th and overtook and finished ahead of a 5th place starting Schumacher it would have been a different storey wouldn’t it? You’d have been slating Schumacher for being totally outclassed by a 24th place starting Rosberg and the fact Schumacher had led after lap one for a couple of laps means nothing, it’s the race that counts.

The guy cant win with you, he can do no right!

Schumacher had a better race in Spa then Rosberg did, accept it, deal with it and move on! Your constant and desperate attempts to argue otherwise makes you look sad and pathetic. You say now you don’t hate Schumacher, but your posts for the last 18months suggest otherwise, infact on 606 you more than once stated why you hated him!

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Vortex. Whilst I agree with you on Ray's motivations, I still think that whilst Schumacher had a good race, Rosberg had an equally good race, all things taken into account.

 

[Vortex]

So back on topic, Quali vs. Race

Hypothetical situation, a team has two drivers, driver A gets pole for all 20 races of the season and driver B qualifies 4th for every race.
After the season end driver A ended up finishing 4th outside the podium for every race where as driver B moved forwards and won all 20 races and the championship.

Which driver would you choose? Both have flaws, which drivers result would you want if you could only have one or the other? As a viewer, fan or team owner!

 

[teabagyokel]

Vortex, obviously I want Prost Driver B. But, as we know, that is extremely unlikely to happen.

 

[Vortex]

Yeah, very hypothetical as I said. lol

 

[RasputinLives]

"hating"

Argggh hitting me on my typing skills! thats completely won me over to your point of view Ray.

Anyways.

So back on topic, Quali vs. Race

Hypothetical situation, a team has two drivers, driver A gets pole for all 20 races of the season and driver B qualifies 4th for every race.
After the season end driver A ended up finishing 4th outside the podium for every race where as driver B moved forwards and won all 20 races and the championship.

Which driver would you choose? Both have flaws, which drivers result would you want if you could only have one or the other? As a viewer, fan or team owner!

This was exactly my point Vortex - for me it has to be driver B. However it seems that getting those poles and high positions has become all more important since the television cameras have been on them. I guess that comes with sponsorship.

 

[Slyboogy]

I would like to raise a point about the Petrov and Heidfeld situation, Petrov qualifes higher and in the top 10 a lot, but was 2 points behind Heidfeld in the leaderboard, this could partially be, the fact that Heidfeld has fresher tyres and can starts on what tyres he would like, therefore giving him a better placed finish in the race, this is none of the drivers fault, just the rules that works in favour for being 11th on the grid backwards compared to 7th-10th on the grid.

This also happened a lot in 2009 when the cars that got into the top 10 and qualified 7th-10th where disadvantaged due to the fact that they had to have a fixed fuel load, unlike the drivers that qualified 11th or lower.

So maybe Petrov is doing a better job than Heidfeld, but is disadvantaged by this qualifying rule where qualifying 11th-14th is more of an advantage than qualifying 7th-10th

Anyone get my point?

As for qualifying vs race, points for me. But it depends on the driver really doesn't it? Vettel got 10 poles last season but during the race lost out a fair few times and got criticism, Kovaleinen this year is getting praised for 'trouncing' Trulli, in reality that's not the case, come race day Trulli is the better driver, say what you like but the facts don't lie.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Anyone get my point?

Yes. And the Renault engineers have a lot more info than just about anyone else.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Yes. And the Renault engineers have a lot more info than just about anyone else.

Petrov and Senna bring more sponsorship money with them than Heidfeld. At the moment that is the most important thing for Renault.

 

[teabagyokel]

Yes. And the Renault engineers have a lot more info than just about anyone else.

Thats funny, I thought you had more information than anyone else!

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Thats funny, I thought you had more information than anyone else!

Never. I would never have as much info as the good, kind folk who run and moderate this fantastic site!

I feel humbled in your presence, TBY!

 

[FB]

Never. I would never have as much info as the good, kind folk who run and moderate this fantastic site!

I feel humbled in your presence, TBY!

 

[Vortex]

 

[Kamui-FastestChefInTheWorld]

I would like to raise a point about the Petrov and Heidfeld situation, Petrov qualifes higher and in the top 10 a lot, but was 2 points behind Heidfeld in the leaderboard, this could partially be, the fact that Heidfeld has fresher tyres and can starts on what tyres he would like, therefore giving him a better placed finish in the race, this is none of the drivers fault, just the rules that works in favour for being 11th on the grid backwards compared to 7th-10th on the grid.

This also happened a lot in 2009 when the cars that got into the top 10 and qualified 7th-10th where disadvantaged due to the fact that they had to have a fixed fuel load, unlike the drivers that qualified 11th or lower.

So maybe Petrov is doing a better job than Heidfeld, but is disadvantaged by this qualifying rule where qualifying 11th-14th is more of an advantage than qualifying 7th-10th

Anyone get my point?

As for qualifying vs race, points for me. But it depends on the driver really doesn't it? Vettel got 10 poles last season but during the race lost out a fair few times and got criticism, Kovaleinen this year is getting praised for 'trouncing' Trulli, in reality that's not the case, come race day Trulli is the better driver, say what you like but the facts don't lie.

Yes, but if a driver realises he will only get to a maximum of 7th, why doesn't he just not take part in Q3?

That way, they are higher up the grid than 11th, and have the same number of tyres.

Remember drivers are not forced to take part in Q3.