Head To Head Nico Rosberg vs Lewis Hamilton

[teabagyokel]

Having said that, The Artist....., the stewards weren't called to make a judgement at Singapore. Piquet crashing was a damn frequent occurrence, too...

 

[-WBF1-]

I'm unsure of Rosberg guilt, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I was watching with a friend of mine and approx. thirty seconds before the incident I did say I would be surprised if he didn't have an off.

I read somewhere else about Indy cars qualifying rules, which would seem to be sensible to avoid this sort of issue.

"If a car causes a red or full course yellow condition in any segment or otherwise interferes with qualifications as determined by the race director, the cars best two timed laps of the segment will be disallowed. An interfering car will not be allowed to advance to the next segment. If a car causes two red or full course yellow conditions in any segment, all segment times shall be voided and the car shall not be permitted to participate in the remainder of qualifying."

Possibly a bit harsh on those making a genuine mistake but should help to keep the cars running during quali. Thoughts?

 

[Mezzer]

Seems pretty harsh, at most I'd suggest the other drivers should be allowed one more timed lap if they were already on a hot lap within the normal prescribed time. Causing yellows/reds by bad driving should be able to be covered by the other standard rules.

 

[teabagyokel]

The 2003-05 qualifying format would be the surest test of a driver's ability. My mod to make this work would be a 2003 style Friday session, with the winner choosing their slot etc.

If it rains, you chose your slot. No parking, no yellow flags, no wasted tyres. TV exposure for all drivers and teams.

I still prefer it. I still don't get why they ditched it, and I still think it'd be fantastic.

 

[Jos the Boss]

I'd do that but just for Q3 with the order of Q2 picking their slot

 

[Mephistopheles]

Coulthard was really crap at qualifying under that system teabagyokel or was he just really crap..

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Personally I hated that system and was glad when they ditched it; I found it extremely dull watching one car go round at a time, and the prime beneficiary always seemed to be Michael Schumacher, usually going last with the benefit of a track that had been cleaned up with rubber laid down by everyone else (or that might just be duff memory skewed by my prejudices).
To me what demonstrated how bad the system was, was the fact that it was fiddled with every year it was used before being dumped for the current system. If it were me, I'd go back to the 1996-2002 system but with no restriction on the number of laps, or stick with what we have now. It's up to each driver to decide when he goes on track and in that decision he reaps what he sows.

Anyway, wouldn't it be interesting to see what Rosberg would have done last Saturday had it been under the 2003-2005 system. Would he have still gone off down the escape road at Mirabeau?

 

[The Artist.....]

This is my abiding memory of one at a time qualifying in Monaco

 

[teabagyokel]

To me what demonstrated how bad the system was, was the fact that it was fiddled with every year it was used before being dumped for the current system.

They've fiddled with the current system almost every year; that is just evidence of F1's fiddleitis.

My justification comes from the weaknesses we've seen in multi-lap qualifying. The drivers do not reap what they sow as it is. Anyone winding up for a quick lap on Saturday at the end was given a grid position they perhaps wouldn't have got meritocratically because someone stuffed it up, then that person who ruined everyone else's time was declared the winner!

My objective, personally, is that qualifying tests the drivers' skills, and that the race is the spectacle. I think seeing each driver doing each lap gives a chance for everyone to marvel at the skills of these guys, and really finds out who is the best. Indeed:

Coulthard was really crap at qualifying under that system teabagyokel or was he just really crap..

There's no "banker laps" in the race, so why should there be in qualification?

In addition, if we're talking cost cutting and efficiency, how better to do it than burn less fuel and use less tyres in qualifying. They could still have to start on qualifying tyres, if that idea floats your boat (it doesn't float mine).

You could say in the cars, it tests the skill of getting the tyres up to temperature, but this is another advantage to the system. If qualifying tests tyre heat generation and the race tests tyre durability, then we have the fantastic situation where a balance needs to be found. It may just lead to better racers being behind good qualifiers on the grid!

In addition, teams with a lower budget would be more likely to attract sponsors with at least 5 minutes live coverage every weekend guaranteed. The grid would likely not be decided at 5pm on Saturdays in the stewards' room. People could not block, or tow their team-mates and competitors. It was man vs machine.

My mod was to allow them to chose their slot if they were fastest, rather than shoving them into 20,19,18... even if that's a disadvantage such as Australia/Japan 2005. Then they have to stick to their decision. These choices could be made on Saturday morning, and certainly would mean we wouldn't have the farce of Silverstone in 2004.

But more to the point, I think it is about the soul of F1. This is high pressure, high stakes, hero-making, man vs machine stuff, condensed into 5 and a half kilometres of sheer guts. This is no second chances, no holds barred, no mistakes allowed. And no cheating, no blocking, no-one in the way when your spring falls off. We see all of the pole lap, rather than just Hamilton coming around the last corner.

In other words, I think it is better. That F1 cocked it up with slightly strange regulations should be no surprise, but there you have it.

and the prime beneficiary always seemed to be Michael Schumacher, usually going last with the benefit of a track that had been cleaned up with rubber laid down by everyone else (or that might just be duff memory skewed by my prejudices).

Barrichello came very close to outqualifying him in 2003, and he only scored 8 poles (to 13 wins) in 2004.

 

[Bill Boddy]

I think that it was the most boring and unfair system ever used. By the time the top drivers were coming out tracks would often be half a second or more faster than for the early runners. The system we have at the moment gives everyone as fair a chance as possible (there could never be a totally fair system) and often makes the first two sessions a frantic dash at the end with some teams missing out because they thought they were safe.

I must say that I thought that the original idea was best, no qualifying session but the best lap a driver did in any free practice session was the one that counted. Would make for lousy television though, another advantage?

 

[Slyboogy]

I think that it was the most boring and unfair system ever used.

I think that sums it up, especially without fuel load strategies these days, it'll be even more unfair, one mechanical retirement could wreck the next weekend and it would be just a domino effect as it could eventually ruin the whole season for a driver.

What we have now is fine, it's probably the best system F1's had.

 

[teabagyokel]

The current system is awful. It ensures that sessions are affected by everyone else rather than mitigates against this.

 

[olegg]

Excuse me if this link has been here.
But this discussion is interesting.

F1 2014 - 06 Monaco GP - Post-Qualifying: Ant and Johnny's big discussion 24 мая 2014 г.

Ant Davidson and Johnny Herbert debate accusations that Nico Rosberg deliberately brought out the yellow flags at the end of qualifying in order to secure pole position from Lewis Hamilton.

 

[olegg]

Only Rosberg may say what is it - cheat or mistake.

One moment: on the first sectors last lap Rosberg has +0,124 s.
It was just before car turn to "Lemon" avenue

 

[Il_leone]

I know it's splitting hairs Mephistopheles but to be more precise, the stewards found no evidence of any wrongdoing, rather than having any conclusive proof that he did nothing wrong. A bit like a referee can only give a penalty if he sees the offence. I guess that's why there is still debate about the matter.

Its not NO evidence but more INCONCLUSIVE evidence to have doubt that Rosberg did not do it deliberate intention to block his teammate

 

[Il_leone]

I suppose the Sun would have labelled Rosberg " Another German cheat !"

--------------------------------------------------------------

When you know your team mate is behind you and going faster plus being the only person capable of beating you.. it only takes one moment of snatching the brakes at Monaco to ruin it for him ..

Rosberg's antics afterwards did not help either

- I don't agree with Hakkinen that Lewis should apologise to Nico ... what for ?

- Whilst Derek Warwick says Lewis should " Man up" and move on .

 

[Mephistopheles]

Actually Il_leone Warwick said "They could find NO evidence of any offence"

Third paragraph.

He also said.

"We had all Mercedes's data, including Lewis's data to overlay on Nico's. We had the FIA data. We had onboard shots, overhead shots, circuit shots. We had throttle traces, braking traces, everything we needed to make, hopefully, the right decision,"

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/1...nico-rosberg-consirpacy-theories-wide-of-mark

 

[Brogan]

And yet the majority of the paddock still think he did it.

Funny that.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Like I said they've got all the data the people in the paddock don't, unless you believe that the stewards let him off to keep the championship alive.

Oh shit I've done it now!! Tin foil hats on everyone...

 

[Il_leone]

Actually Il_leone Warwick said "They could find NO evidence of any offence"

Third paragraph.

He also said.


http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/1...nico-rosberg-consirpacy-theories-wide-of-mark

It means the evidence was inconclusive because Rosberg (did not make out obvious that he) did it deliberately