Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[Cookinflatsix]

I think the change to Inters was Lewis' call so it is his fault, but that is subsidiary in a way. The move off the chicane and impending drive through cost him dearly.

You think it was his call? Interesting supposition there. I think, therefore Lewis messed up

The move off the chicane? oh you saw that? good stuff!

 

[MCLS]

What people tend to overlook that on the whole, the MP4-26 has been every bit as fast as the Red Bull this year just when it comes down to the crunch Vettel has come out on top, whether through skill or luck is down to debate.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

What people tend to overlook that on the whole, the MP4-26 has been every bit as fast as the Red Bull this year just when it comes down to the crunch Vettel has come out on top, whether through skill or luck is down to debate.

Or through blinding qualifying pace, which has now been neutralised. Have you noticed that Vettel hasn't won any of the last three races? What has changed? Engine mapping parc ferme regulations. Red Bull no longer have a super dominant qualifying car and it's hurting Vettel. Would he be winning the championship if this advantage had not been present at the beginning of the season? I think not.

The McLaren's would be leading and I think we would see Lewis on top.

 

[Josh]

You think it was his call? Interesting supposition there. I think, therefore Lewis messed up

The move off the chicane? oh you saw that? good stuff!

What I found interesting was that Jonathan Neale had told Ted that Lewis asked for the inters, yet later we were told Lewis' radio wasn't working and Martin Whitmarsh was saying it was a team decision (which is generally a good way of avoiding the question, since "the team" can mean anyone).

 

[Fenderman]

FFS. I've held my peace or is that piece long enough. Of course it's a team decision. Until such time as meteorological data is displayed in the cockpit it always will be. Yes, a driver might chose to take a punt but if you look at the stat's for Button for example it's a 50/50 punt at best - sometimes works sometimes doesn't. McLaren won and picked up points for 4th. Has anyone got anything interesting to talk about or is this all I can expect to read about on Clip for the next four weeks?

 

[Slyboogy]

FFS. I've held my peace or is that piece long enough. Of course it's a team decision. Until such time as meteorological data is displayed in the cockpit it always will be. Yes, a driver might chose to take a punt but if you look at the stat's for Button for example it's a 50/50 punt at best - sometimes works sometimes doesn't. McLaren won and picked up points for 4th. Has anyone got anything interesting to talk about or is this all I can expect to read about on Clip for the next four weeks?

Temper Temper! Deep breath my friend...

Unfortunately sometimes things do round in circles...whether it's debates, NASCAR cars...yoyos...

The fact is that McLaren would have won the race either way....

 

[Josh]

That wasn't exactly what I was getting at, but if it makes you feel better, good for you

I actually meant the fact that we were getting told entirely contradicting statements.

Of course it's a team decision.

Btw, I thought it was an obvious move, Ferrari thought it was going to keep raining for 10 minutes so they took a pretty huge gamble by letting Alonso (and Massa too, I think) stay out. They were lucky that it actually stopped raining shortly after. Every team has the same information but they acted upon it differently. Jenson was supposed to come in on inters as well, remember, but he clearly felt comfortable enough to keep going. That, however, could have turned out badly for him, but it didn't, and he won.

I figure (if Lewis' radio was working, which we don't know for sure thanks to those statements contradicting each other) it would have gone something like this: Lewis didn't feel comfortable on his tyres, asks for inters, team looks at the radar, sees it's apparently going to keep raining for 10 minutes, and decide to go with it, as that's what he wants and would probably have worked out well.
But it didn't keep raining, and now they look like a bunch of dumbasses.

However, if it's true that Lewis' radio wasn't working, then yes, it really was McLaren's mistake.

 

[Fenderman]

Thanks Josh. I agree.

The intent of my outburst was to try and stop that debate infecting yet another thread. it's been done to death already on the race weekend thread and that's driven me nuts!

 

[Slyboogy]

Look what you did to the guy! He's doing that face! <--- yeah that one!

And yes, this debate has been going on and has screwed up a fair few threads....

The McLaren though seems to be the best package out there, best in qualifying, best in race pace, best in the wet. I am merely basing this on this weekend.

I hope this debate hasn't been done to death, I haven't been here today until now so forgive me

 

[Fenderman]

Nice one, Sly. But prepare for the negative wave that's about to breach the sea defenses! Or am I knee jerking and being pessimistic again?

Oh, and I would use the phrase "very competitive with Red Bull", myself.

 

[Slyboogy]

Nice one, Sly. But prepare for the negative wave that's about to breach the sea defenses! Or am I knee jerking and being pessimistic again?

Oh, and I would use the phrase "very competitive with Red Bull", myself.

Always expect the unexpected

But then you won't expect the expected What's then to be expected?

Hm...clearly seemed faster than the red bull to me, both cars that is, when was the last time we saw button qualify "3rd"? It was a while back, but then Vettel did say after re race he had brake problems once again and then took 4-5s out of buttons lead at the end :thinking

"competitive with Red Bull" then, although i am not entirely satisfied with that...

 

[Sarinaide]

You think it was his call? Interesting supposition there. I think, therefore Lewis messed up

Totally right, silly of me to think that Lewis is ever at fault, McLaren to some are sabotaging Lewis so they pulled him in for Inters.

 

[Quintessentially]

Or through blinding qualifying pace, which has now been neutralised. Have you noticed that Vettel hasn't won any of the last three races? What has changed? Engine mapping parc ferme regulations. Red Bull no longer have a super dominant qualifying car and it's hurting Vettel. Would he be winning the championship if this advantage had not been present at the beginning of the season? I think not.

The McLaren's would be leading and I think we would see Lewis on top.

Agreed. No way would Vettel have 7 race wins(?) under his belt under the status quo.

Those opening laps yesterday under very difficult conditions once again separated the men from the boys.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Totally right, silly of me to think that Lewis is ever at fault, McLaren to some are sabotaging Lewis so they pulled him in for Inters.

Alonso and his team spun more than Lewis and made the wrong tyre choice. The difference is that Alonso had his patsy to let him past and act as a test dummy. Whereas McLaren gave the other driver the better strategy

 

[Brogan]

Posts deleted.

Read the rules please as everyone is starting to transgress them and there will be consequences if it doesn't stop.

 

[Incubus]

I can read my own comment and the only time the word "sabotage" was uttered was by me and referred to Alonso and Ferrari so it very obviously was said in irony and I don't know why are making a fuss over it.
And I never said those fans I referred to earlier had accused Whitmarsh of "sabotaging" Lewis's race, merely that I thought they were implying Whitmarsh's strategy calls were specifically designed to favour Button over Lewis. And I stick by that.

Oh, and Cookin', could you please explain to me how can you possibly interpret my comment as "personal insult when it doesn't even mention anyone specific?
I

 

[Brogan]

I was referring specifically to the term "fanboy", which is not permitted, along with the comment "whining brats".

The simple rule of thumb is, if you can't post within the confines of the rules, then don't.

And once again, if anyone considers any post has overstepped the mark, just report it instead of responding.
All that does is end up with a bunch of tit-for-tat posts which all end up having to be deleted.

 

[The Artist.....]

What I found interesting was that Jonathan Neale had told Ted that Lewis asked for the inters, yet later we were told Lewis' radio wasn't working and Martin Whitmarsh was saying it was a team decision (which is generally a good way of avoiding the question, since "the team" can mean anyone).

You know, I'm not sure that these are completely inconsistent statements.

LH was having radio problems... I can imagine the McLaren team telling him to come in *IF* he wanted intermediates, and thus readied the tyres... Given the radio problems, it's perfectly possible that LH interpreted this as an instruction to come in for intermediates...

Thus, the team think that he's come in asking for intermediates - he thinks that he's been called in, whilst Whitmarsh defends everyone!

 

[F1ang-o]

That wasn't exactly what I was getting at, but if it makes you feel better, good for you

I actually meant the fact that we were getting told entirely contradicting statements.

Of course it's a team decision.

Btw, I thought it was an obvious move, Ferrari thought it was going to keep raining for 10 minutes so they took a pretty huge gamble by letting Alonso (and Massa too, I think) stay out. They were lucky that it actually stopped raining shortly after. Every team has the same information but they acted upon it differently. Jenson was supposed to come in on inters as well, remember, but he clearly felt comfortable enough to keep going. That, however, could have turned out badly for him, but it didn't, and he won.

I figure (if Lewis' radio was working, which we don't know for sure thanks to those statements contradicting each other) it would have gone something like this: Lewis didn't feel comfortable on his tyres, asks for inters, team looks at the radar, sees it's apparently going to keep raining for 10 minutes, and decide to go with it, as that's what he wants and would probably have worked out well.
But it didn't keep raining, and now they look like a bunch of dumbasses.

However, if it's true that Lewis' radio wasn't working, then yes, it really was McLaren's mistake.

Lot of supposition

Button was told to come in for Inters & queue behind Lewis...JB said this himself, in the after race interview...but...he also said he didn't want to.........., and he didn't reply to the call....
Had he done so.........what woud he have said...(supposition)...don't want to come in.....inters not needed......, but then Lewis would have heard & maybe he wouldn't have followed the team order...to put on inters.....and .....
Lewis needs to trust his own intuition....not blindly go..........
'He who doesn't understand history, has chance of repeating it'
Discussion helps next time?

 

[RasputinLives]

Lewis is able to hear Jenson's radio transmissions?

I think thats a bit unfair - I smell a conspiracy.