Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:

• Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
• Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
• Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
• Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.

Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)

 

[Senna's_right_foot]

Will the same "peoples driver" "pure driver" accord if you say swap Liuzzi and Hamilton's cars and see how it pans out, with Liuzzi running away in a McLaren and Hamilton barely keeping the HRT on track, will that be due to driver or to car?

Of course the driver makes the difference. Jesus it's really not that difficult to comprehend. Is it? Liuzzi would not 'run away' in a McLaren because he isn't good enough to. If he was he'd be in a McLaren already. Conversely, it's nonsense to think that Hamilton wouldn't go quicker than Liuzzi if he were in an HRT. Hamilton is quicker than his own current team-mate so why wouldn't he be quicker than Liuzzi, who is average at best? Using your 'best car wins' logic, the best car would constantly finish 1-2, with the second best car 3rd and 4th, 3rd best car 5th and 6th and so on. Hell, why do teams bother paying top drivers millions when they can pluck any Tom, Dick or Harry off the streets, plonk them into their car and as long as it's the 'best car' *yawn* they'll have no problem winning.

Your man didn't win, 2007 was 4 years ago, get over it. Ridiculous argument, abandon ship.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

So if it is all driver and nothing to do with Machine a certain Michael Schumacher likely the greatest ever would be winning all the time, just because the driver in you regard trumps the machine. Will the same "peoples driver" "pure driver" accord if you say swap Liuzzi and Hamilton's cars and see how it pans out, with Liuzzi running away in a McLaren and Hamilton barely keeping the HRT on track, will that be due to driver or to car?

I don't know if you are just padding this to make your driver look like a superman, but when you qualify ahead of another car by more than .200 on single lap pace thats 1sec after 5 that is significant...thanks though.

Oh come on. Don't be silly. The top three all put in great performances and any of them could have won the race. I'm not suggesting a superman performance from anyone. They all drove good races. The winner drove the better race. (Not by much)

I haven't suggested that performance in F1 is nothing to do with the machine either. What I am suggesting is that performance in F1 must factor the driver as well as the machine.

I think you know exactly what I am saying and this latest response is incredibly childish. Conversation over.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Lewis particularly enjoyed overtaking Alonso round the outside, must have been uplifting for the whole team to see the driver they kept breeze past the driver that left the team

 

[Tram]

Lewis particularly enjoyed overtaking Alonso round the outside, must have been uplifting for the whole team to see the driver they kept breeze past the driver that left the team

Cookinflatsix naturally aspirated! That for me was the highlight of the the race.

I just hope Ron Dennis attends all the remaining races!

 

[Quintessentially]

So if it is all driver and nothing to do with Machine a certain Michael Schumacher likely the greatest ever would be winning all the time, just because the driver in you regard trumps the machine. .

Mate, he clearly wrote that "if you factor in the driver as part of the package". He did not say it is all driver.

 

[Quintessentially]

I wouldn't make it up. There's no reason to. I'll dig it up when I have time.

PS, if you use the word "illegal" that only means one thing. Still, i'll have to dig up where they allegedly treatened the suit.

If I made a mistake, i'll say so...and then you can delete the posts that say so.

Ray - post the link of "Redbull threatening to sue the FIA" or please refrain from making such baseless allegations in the future.

 

[RayInTorontoCanada]

I made a mistake. It was Ecclestone threatening to sue the FIA at Silverstone.

Here is the "Ecclestone threatens to sue the FIA..." link from ESPN:

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/53223.html

So the mods can delete my sentences on that specific subject. I certainly didn't make it up on purpose. There was a lot happening around the days leading up to the Silverstone race and I thought RBR were allegedly threatening to take some action against the FIA.

I admit to my mistake. It certainly wasn't intentional. Happy?

Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes-Benz HPE and Renault Sport did, however, protest the FIA's changing of the rules mid-season. And McLaren did make a leap from their low of Silverstone to winning at Germany from the front row whilst Ferrari didn't run away with this race like they did in Silverstone.

 

[Speshal]

This is all veering wildly off topic, if you want to discuss today's race there's a thread for that.

If you want to discuss Driver A is better than Driver B - there's a thread for that

If you want to discuss the McLaren team then this is the thread for that.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

What an absolute shambolic mess!

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Wrong call by mclaren with super softs 30 laps from the end

Shocking

 

[f1fansp]

Not sure that was what destroyed Hamilton's race today; maybe lost him the chance of a win, but didn't result in him finishing 4th

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Wrong call by mclaren with super softs 30 laps from the end

Shocking

Absolutely, and why didn't they tell him that Webber was slow on inters ad that there was no more rain coming. Threw away and easy 1-2 and thier best chance at bringing the championship back to life.

 

[Quintessentially]

I thought it was the right call and Hamilton had to pull a gap to Jenson to make it work. Strangely he couldn't despite being on the faster tyre and i think he may have had a clutch issue. The spin didn't help either and it was downhill from there. Jenson earned the win regardless so kudos to him.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Jenson earned a second place. He got more than he paid for. Good job, all the same.

 

[f1fansp]

Going onto Super soft cost Hamilton 1st -> 2nd, spinning/drive-through cost him 2nd -> 3rd (from Alonso), choice of Inters/change to Softs cost him 3rd -> 4th

Jenson earned the vicory more than any other driver today, so don;t know who you'd nominate for the win.

 

[Galahad]

Lewis "the better man won today"

 

[KekeTheKing]

Lewis didn't do himself any favors by slowing at the end of stints, but the choice for Super-Softs was very questionable. That move was what set the wheels in motion for Hamilton's fall to P4. Pretty poor result after fairly dominating the first half of the GP.

 

[Quintessentially]

And drive through cost him 4th---->6th. Crucially he didn't lose his head and clawed his way back to 4th. Personally i thought the main turning point was the spin and he's now confirmed that he had tyre graining issues. Had he been able to pull a gap at a rate of say a second per lap and not spun, i believe he would've finished second at the very worst.

 

[Sarinaide]

I think the change to Inters was Lewis' call so it is his fault, but that is subsidiary in a way. The move off the chicane and impending drive through cost him dearly.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

I think the change to Inters was Lewis' call so it is his fault, but that is subsidiary in a way. The move off the chicane and impending drive through cost him dearly.

Unless Lewis had a weather forecast on a screen in his cockpit alongside Mark Webber's sector times on a heads up on his visor, which I'm pretty sure he didn't, I'll leave the blame with the team. That is not simply because it suits me, that is common sense.