Clip The Xmas 
..............even you, with your spelling. 
McLaren & McLaren Drivers Were Trumped By Vettel
- Thread starter RayInTorontoCanada
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RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
I'm not Pro Anyone, per se'!
I'm Pro Grand Prix racing and I write stuff that I believe is right.
My article is right. It's right about Hamilton's Q3. It's right about Vettel's tyre management skills V Button's tyre management skill. It's right about McLaren having the faster race package at the moment.
Lastly...
...As I just mentioned, i'll be cheering on Hamilton and the rest of the good guys at Montreal so that Vettel is beaten fair and square and doesn't run away with the WDC trophy by Summer.
I'm Pro Grand Prix racing and I write stuff that I believe is right.
My article is right. It's right about Hamilton's Q3. It's right about Vettel's tyre management skills V Button's tyre management skill. It's right about McLaren having the faster race package at the moment.
Lastly...
...As I just mentioned, i'll be cheering on Hamilton and the rest of the good guys at Montreal so that Vettel is beaten fair and square and doesn't run away with the WDC trophy by Summer.
See what I mean?
Love you Ray.
Love you Ray.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Christian Horner today, in the link below, basically is confiming my OP article from yesterday about Vettel over-coming RBR's botched pit stop, with the young German subsequently driving conservatively enough to preserve his tyres whilst Button was using up his set and needed to come in again.
http://www.itv.com/formula1/news/20...some-sebastian-vettel-made-win-possible-1422/
Horner would abviously "big up" his driver, but in my mind, the idea that Button is "a great tyre manager" has simply been some myth. Either that or Vettel is now the new "best tyre manager" in F1.
http://www.itv.com/formula1/news/20...some-sebastian-vettel-made-win-possible-1422/
Horner would abviously "big up" his driver, but in my mind, the idea that Button is "a great tyre manager" has simply been some myth. Either that or Vettel is now the new "best tyre manager" in F1.
Interesting read Ray but I'm not sure Christian Horner counts as an "impartial witness" 
Either way, it was an impressive performance from Vettel, it's just a shame we were denied the final 8 (?) laps to see if either Alonso or Button could have tried to pass him.
Either way, it was an impressive performance from Vettel, it's just a shame we were denied the final 8 (?) laps to see if either Alonso or Button could have tried to pass him.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
I believe it was 6 laps.
78 Lap race, Red Flagged on 72, if I recall.
What is interesting is Martin Whitmarsh echoing my OP sentiments by saying McLarens had "race-winning pace"!
Ouch.
78 Lap race, Red Flagged on 72, if I recall.
What is interesting is Martin Whitmarsh echoing my OP sentiments by saying McLarens had "race-winning pace"!
Ouch.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Mark Hughes confirming my OP:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13601279.stm
It's a shame that he doesn't give Vettel enough credit for expertly managing his tyres ... and doesn't say anything about Button eating up his tyres to such an extent that he needed to stop three times, more than anyone else!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13601279.stm
It's a shame that he doesn't give Vettel enough credit for expertly managing his tyres ... and doesn't say anything about Button eating up his tyres to such an extent that he needed to stop three times, more than anyone else!
There's beating a dead horse, and then there's this.
But at least you'll be cheering Lewis on in Canada Ray!
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Yes I will!
Hamilton is the only realistic hope of Vettel not running away with this title!
Believe me, I think Vettel is the most outstanding driver over all: Ultra quick; cool under pressure; unrivalled tyre manager; even dictating his own strategy...but I think Hamilton's not far behind and he is us fans' only hope of worrying Vettel in the 2011 WDC.
Go Lewis Go!
PS,
We ran onto the circuit after last years' GP and soaked in the Podium. Whilst Hamilton and Button were happy as they could possibly be, Alonso stood in the background looking all glum as if he'd been pick-pocketed!
This year i'm hoping to have the wind send drops of Champagne my way!
Hehe!
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Look at this:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92038
Paul Hembrey confirming that Vettel would have done 62 laps on the Softs had he continued driving the way he did. That's just awsome! 200 Kms on one set of Softs!
The myth about Button being a great tyre manager just got ripped to shreds last weekend.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92038
Paul Hembrey confirming that Vettel would have done 62 laps on the Softs had he continued driving the way he did. That's just awsome! 200 Kms on one set of Softs!
The myth about Button being a great tyre manager just got ripped to shreds last weekend.
Sorry ray, I must have missed the bit in the article about jb's tyre management.
Neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but you have made a mighty leap from seb making his tyres last 62 laps, to jenson not being able to manage tyres, not sure that is what the available evidence points to.
It does point to a three stopper not being correct in the scenario which unfolded, and a few other things, but lets not get carried away!
Neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but you have made a mighty leap from seb making his tyres last 62 laps, to jenson not being able to manage tyres, not sure that is what the available evidence points to.
It does point to a three stopper not being correct in the scenario which unfolded, and a few other things, but lets not get carried away!
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
How about an admission from Button himself that he used up his Super-Softs too much on his second stint? Would that suffice? Can you tell me why he used up 3 sets of Super-Softs during the Monaco GP when Vettel, Alonso and Kobayashi only used up 1 set? [Perhaps i'm not coming across as 'a Button fan' but i'm merely Calling 'em As I See 'em and that's it.] Cheers, Pits.
erm, why?
Just because in a difficult and unusual race Vettel managed to eek out a set of tyres while Button didn't do so well doesn't mean that "The Myth of Button" is shattered forever. I think you'll find that it takes more than one race to build or break a myth (even if there was one). Button, it is generally accepted, is easier on his tyres than a lot of other drivers. Ok, so in this instance things didn't go so well. So?
We have absolutely no proof what so ever that Vettel wouldn't have stuck it into the wall on those tyres after a couple more laps. The saddest thing about the Monaco GP as the fact that we didn't get to see what could have been one of the most thrilling finishes to an F1 race ever. The thought of Vettel, Alonso and Button dicing for the lead was mouthwatering.
Vettel up to the point of the red flag was doing a fantastic job, no one can deny that so it's a shame we didn't get to see how it panned out.
It also pains me to stick up for Button because I am definately no fan of his but since he has joined Mclaren he has proven on a number of occasions that he is a good driver and a match for anyone on the grid.
Ray, I am sure that does not really count, also using 3 sets of super sorts indicates an aggressive strategy, which i thought would not work, the team were, im sure expecting vettel and possibly alonso to pit again.
I am not going against the basic point that you have made, as I think it is correct, but to use this race as an example of buttons tyre management is a little unfair, especially considering the strategy differences.
On a clear track, it was fairly clear that the 3 stopper would have been faster, but red bull trumped McLaren and vettel drove well to made it work, aided by 2 safety car periods. I would wager that McLaren assumed the 2 stop for vettel, and were as surprised as most when vettel made them last.
I am not going against the basic point that you have made, as I think it is correct, but to use this race as an example of buttons tyre management is a little unfair, especially considering the strategy differences.
On a clear track, it was fairly clear that the 3 stopper would have been faster, but red bull trumped McLaren and vettel drove well to made it work, aided by 2 safety car periods. I would wager that McLaren assumed the 2 stop for vettel, and were as surprised as most when vettel made them last.
RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
The Pits, Esq./Sir:
Button hasn't a won a Grand Prix since the variable weather 2010 Chinese GP where luck had as much to do with his call than anything. Since then McLaren have won 4 Grand Prix races under varying circumstances and Button's tyre management skills on average have been no better than Hamilton's and he's usually slower.
Button fans don't want to see it, but I have nothing against him and I don't love Lewis either. I'm neutral on both. But anyone with an unbiased mind can see that Lewis is faster than Jenson while having no disadvantage on the tyre management side. Lewis finished within 1 second of Button's last victory which came as a result of a lucky weather call...a call which could have gone either way. A 50/50 call.
Button hasn't a won a Grand Prix since the variable weather 2010 Chinese GP where luck had as much to do with his call than anything. Since then McLaren have won 4 Grand Prix races under varying circumstances and Button's tyre management skills on average have been no better than Hamilton's and he's usually slower.
Button fans don't want to see it, but I have nothing against him and I don't love Lewis either. I'm neutral on both. But anyone with an unbiased mind can see that Lewis is faster than Jenson while having no disadvantage on the tyre management side. Lewis finished within 1 second of Button's last victory which came as a result of a lucky weather call...a call which could have gone either way. A 50/50 call.
Ray, not going to disagree that Lewis is quicker than jb. I will point out that in China he lost a 30 second lead due to a safety car.
I would also add that vettel in China was almost the opposite of the eulogising regards Monaco. The strategy in monaco would only have worked in monaco, and well done to seb for an excellent job.
I fail to see however, how this calls into question Jenson performance relative to lewis.
If you would like some evidence to tyre management, I am sure I could provide examples good and bad for most drivers, it happens that I.believe jb follows the route more than others of alternative strategies that he gets called out more.
I would also add that vettel in China was almost the opposite of the eulogising regards Monaco. The strategy in monaco would only have worked in monaco, and well done to seb for an excellent job.
I fail to see however, how this calls into question Jenson performance relative to lewis.
If you would like some evidence to tyre management, I am sure I could provide examples good and bad for most drivers, it happens that I.believe jb follows the route more than others of alternative strategies that he gets called out more.
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