Lotus Renault Driver Change

[EvilWhippet]

I've been abit critical of some of the GP2 champs since Glock.

Rosberg won the title in the first GP2 season.
Hamilton won it at first attempt second time around.
Glock wins in his second season in GP2.
So you don't need much experience to win the GP2 title.
Next year Bruno finishes a distant second to the GREAT Giorgio Pantano? Was that his name? Grosjean finished 4th.
In 2009 Hulkenberg won at first attempt. Grosjean, Petrov, Di Grassi et al were all still there but Nico in his first season beat them all and moved on.
2010 Maldonado wins followed by Perez, but they'd both basically waited until the better driver had moved on before coing out on top.
2011, on FOURTH attempt, with all the drivers who'd prevously beaten him out of the way he finally wins the GP2 tite.
I just don't see it as quite right that Hulkenberg languishes as a test driver while Perez, Maldonado and Grosjean get race seats as he beat them all in his rookie season and they only won once he'd moved out f the way.

 

[RasputinLives]

Agree with you there but EW but on the subject of Grosjean - he would have won in 09 but went off to drive for Renault and he didn't compete in 10 - so you could argue that his little trip into F1 has stalled his career. It was also the only season that no one picked up the GP2 champ for that exact reason.

 

[EvilWhippet]

Fair enough but the value of the title is over played when the best drivers are the ones who leave soonest.

 

[RasputinLives]

But by the same standards the new upcoming drivers from the formula below then come into GP2

For instance Hamilton was not driving in GP2 when Rosberg won it in 2005. Hulkenberg won GP2 in his first season(but only because Grosjean moved to F1)

The majority of GP2 drivers who have graduated to F1 spend 2 years in GP2 - one rookie year - followed by one competitve year - like Timo Glock did (2006 and 2007). As a 23 year old Grosjean made his GP2 debut in 08 and came 4th. He was leading the championship in 09 until he moved to Renault for F1 with 8 races to go and still came 4th that year. He then did a stint in GT1 World Championship, he did the Le Mans 24 hour and returned to GP2 for six races. This season he's stormed to the title.

I think you under-estimate him and the quality of the GP2 field at your periel. I can see at least 5 future F1 drivers in the field alone.

 

[EvilWhippet]

When Hamilton and Hulkenberg win on first attempt, what more can you ask? There only result is 1st.

Whereas Grosjean, Maldonado etc. were all beaten first attempt. The best reason not to judge him on GP2 performence would be that Kobayashi was very average in GP2 but is now one of the better young drivers around. Chandock was inferior to Bruno in GP2 but beat him handily in F1.

Fair play to Grosjean, he may have won earlier had other things not come up, but he only stormed to the title this year because everybody moved out of his way, all the guys who have a similar level of experience all got into F1. I don't see it as an even gauge of talent.

 

[RasputinLives]

So if Grosjean had won the title the GP2 title in 2009 and Hulkenberg had had to wait until 2010 it would have made Hulkenberg less skilled?

Moved out of his way? Well when he's competing against drivers such as Bianchi, Pic and Bird I don't think you can say everyone just 'moved out of his way'

and although people say Kobi was very avergae in GP2 he was still GP2 Asia champion. As for the Chandhok and Senna thing - prob best wait and see on that front as Chandhok didn't exactly cover himself in glory when he got his Lotus drive did he?

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Brogan]

Renault have confirmed that they have reached an "amicable agreement" with Heidfeld and Senna will race for the remainder of the season.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

Great for Senna, bad for Beards.

Now if Bruno can grow some facial fuzz I may be cheered up by this news but I fear that Evilwhippet will be inconsolable.

 

[Jos the Boss]

I love how all decisions all relate to emotions of the biggest nick heidfeld fanboy in the world!

 

[EvilWhippet]

So if Grosjean had won the title the GP2 title in 2009 and Hulkenberg had had to wait until 2010 it would have made Hulkenberg less skilled?

That would be a different reality so maybe, who knows.

Moved out of his way? Well when he's competing against drivers such as Bianchi, Pic and Bird I don't think you can say everyone just 'moved out of his way'

By moved out of the way I was referring to the proven top quality drivers.

and although people say Kobi was very avergae in GP2 he was still GP2 Asia champion. As for the Chandhok and Senna thing - prob best wait and see on that front as Chandhok didn't exactly cover himself in glory when he got his Lotus drive did he?

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Karun was parachuted into a race where everyone was struggling and he was just as composed as Vettel and Schumacher. In direct comparison to Brun: Bruno beat him once, Chandock beat him 6 times. Yet Karun and Hulkenberg's talents are squandered further down the grid in test seats, when men they beat are looking at race seats in Renaults. One of those men has Ayrton Senna's second name, the other's manager runs Renault.

 

[Vortex]

Sad to see Heidfeld go, I like the guy, this could be the last time we see him in F1 (however I’ve thought that more than once before but he keeps coming back).
I understand why Renault did it tho, money obviously but they kinda got little to lose by risking it with Senna now as they’re very likely to retain their position in the constructers so may as well get some race miles on Senna encase Kubica doesn’t come back next year so he can replace him.

 

[The Artist.....]

In direct comparison to Brun: Bruno beat him once, Chandock (sic) beat him 6 times.

Well, not really,

In the races, whilst both drivers finished: Karun beat him twice, Senna beat him once, whilst in qualifying, Senna beat Chandhok 6-3.

 

[EvilWhippet]

Karun got the car to the finish more often, he should be commended for that. 6-1

Doesn't matter how often folks reference it, nobody gets points on Saturday. Not even Vettel!

 

[no-FIAt-please]

But how many of the retirements were Senna's faults? That HRT didn't exactly have bullet-proof reliability...

 

[Josh]

Bahrain: Chandhok crashed, Senna's engine overheated
Austalia: Senna had hydraulic issues
Spain: Senna crashed (Chandhok retired because of collision damage, not his fault)
Monaco: Senna had hydraulic issues and Trulli decided to use Chandhok's car as a parking spot
Turkey: Senna had fuel pressure issues and Chandhok had fuel pump issues
Canada: Senna had a gearbox failure

In races in which they both drove Senna had 5 retirements which weren't his fault and Chandhok 3. Both went out once because they made a mistake.

The rest of Senna's retirements:

Spa: suspension failure
Italy: Hydraulics problems
Singapore: crashed

I actually think he did pretty well considering all the mechanical issues he had. Yamamoto (driving Chandhok's car) had a gearbox failure in Germany, but he and Klien didn't have any issues for the rest of the season. It was mainly Senna who had problems.

 

[EvilWhippet]

Ifs and buts don't get ya nothing though! Sunday does!

 

[Josh]

Correct, but if you have a car which fails when it counts there's nothing you can do about it. Those retirements should not be held against him when comparing him with Chandhok.

 

[EvilWhippet]

I am not lambasting Bruno, but commending Karun for nursing a difficult car like a Mumbai snake charmer. He beat Bruno. Bruno gets a race seat with one of the top five teams and Karun is reserve driver for one of the newbies. No matter what calculator I use I just can't figure it out. I'll have to get one with a $ symbol on it.

 

[The Artist.....]

Evil.... Have a look back at GP2. They were team-mates together at iSport. Senna finished 2nd in the championship, Chandhok 10th. Senna has shown far more talent than Chandhok!

 

[RasputinLives]

EW doesn't rate GP2 I'm afraid.