Head To Head Jenson Button vs Sergio Pérez

[The Pits]

Neither Sutil nor Di Resta could pass the Mercedes cars of Hamilton and Rosberg.

Whitmarsh has gone on record saying Checo was not told to hold station, which Checo has also stated.

Is it really so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe, it happened this way through anything other than team orders instigated by Jensons whinging?

 

[teabagyokel]

No, he was not told to hold station. He was told not to risk burning out the tyres passing Jenson. Multi 56.

 

[The Pits]

Or maybe he couldn't get past. Or maybe he didn't try and risk it. Or maybe it was an order. Or maybe his tyres did go off.

And I missed the radio call telling checo not to risk his tyres passing jenson.

 

[Mephistopheles]

After Malaysia, you were spending a lot if time telling us how Rosberg deserved to pass Hamilton and thus his podium was undeserved. To now suggest that Perez being told to hold position shows he was slower than Button is a crass attempt to have your cake and eat it, and is both incongruous and inconsistent.

And if you read my comments again you will see that after a long debate I admitted that I was wrong...

 

[teabagyokel]

http://www.espn.co.uk/mclaren/motorsport/story/107997.html

They were both pulling away from Ricciardo when the message was sent and finished lap 65 nearly 20 seconds clear. Although I admit Button may have got back at him, I don't buy the idea it wasn't a team order.

The orange is Button, the brown Perez and the purple Ricciardo.

 

[The Pits]

And that's fine, my belief is that it may have been, however, as in so many other things, the evidence is circumstantial, and depends on your opinions of Whitmarsh and Perez, both of whom have said there were no orders to hold station.

Couple that with the fact that the mercs were able to hold off the force India's, I don't see it as too much of a leap to think that Jenson may have been able to hold check off for the last few laps of the race.

And if it was team orders, hey, so what? It doesn't nullify what has been said previously about racing etc. nd it also does not reflect poorly on Jenson, as I believe has been intimated.

 

[Slyboogy]

And that's fine, my belief is that it may have been, however, as in so many other things, the evidence is circumstantial, and depends on your opinions of Whitmarsh and Perez, both of whom have said there were no orders to hold station.

I wonder if you believed Domenicali and Massa after Hockenheim 2010.

 

[teabagyokel]

And if it was team orders, hey, so what?

Well, exactly. I do sort of understand what Whitmarsh means when he says the order was "practical not tactical". At this stage I honestly don't believe that anyone is making orders with favouritism, rather with the percentages.

In fact, McLaren would be utterly daft to play team orders now that it is crystal clear they're about as likely to win the Championship as Sir Alex Ferguson is to take the Liverpool manager's job, since it would obsfucate any evaluation of their drivers.

 

[The Pits]

Slyboogy not sure of the relevance, as team orders are now legal.

 

[Mephistopheles]

teabagyokel Here is where I said I was wrong about Malaysia.

I did go into a knee jerk reaction after the last race but I have since realized that I was probably wrong.

So I don't see how you can call my posts

a crass attempt to have your cake and eat it, and is both incongruous and inconsistent

 

[Il_leone]

Was there any difference swapping the two cars around given Perez was probably not going to catch Di Resta anyway at the rate he was burning his tyres

I thought Perez 's skill was managing tyres ?

 

[Slyboogy]

Slyboogy not sure of the relevance, as team orders are now legal.

I believe there is, although to a lesser extent. McLaren say they have a policy of letting their drivers race, if they say team orders weren't used, they would be under quite a bit of criticism.

 

[Hamberg]

The Artist..... Meph said that 4 stops was the optimum strategy earlier on in this debate. I suggest you review your sweeping statements before chastising me. Thankyou.

 

[teabagyokel]

Apologies Mephistopheles

 

[The Pits]

McLaren have a policy of letting the drivers race. I think that people's perception of the team is unlikely to change if they used team orders, as most seem to have made up their mind either way already, regardless of what happens.

Besides an order to hold station would be easy to defend in the circumstances, and with the crap flying at whitmars already, I'm sure a few more bits would make little difference.

 

[Mephistopheles]

The Artist..... Meph said that 4 stops was the optimum strategy earlier on in this debate. I suggest you review your sweeping statements before chastising me. Thankyou.

both 4 and 3 stops worked but most teams opted for 4 in fact I believe that only 4 drivers used the 3 stop strategy and they were Button, Kimi, Rosberg and Chilton and it has been claimed that 4 stops may have been better for Rosberg...

Of the 4 drivers who used the 3 stop strategy only 2 drivers made up places

So that is why I said that 4 stops was probably the way to go..

But there could be something wrong with my logic, that is always a possibility....

 

[Hamberg]

Which then goes back to why Perez wasn't on a 3 stop. Button's opening stint was absolutely terrible, 17th and falling back from everybody in front of him so I'm not falling for the Button managed his tyres better crap which is why he was on a 3 stop.

McLaren had both drivers on a different strategy. One driver did a whole lot better than the other who was then told not to fight. Was Button told not to defend?

 

[racecub]

Button has gone on record saying he couldn't defend because he had to protect his tyres, he was just having to let cars past. So why did this not apply when his faster team mate arrived behind him? Why wasn't Button told to continue protecting his tyres and not defend against the faster Perez?

 

[RasputinLives]

Is it because Button smells?

 

[The Artist.....]

Hamberg - the facts of the race don't support your supposition. At the end of stints, Perez's tyres were toast- he was losing over a second a lap to his 'slower' team mate... Had he carried on any further n those stints, he would have been knackered- and may have even had a tyre failure!