IRL Delta Wing Plans - the way forward for F1?

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Following various links on different web sites I came across some discussions that IRL are considering doing away with the front and rear wings on their race cars from 2012 and moving towards a "delta wing" concept. From what I can gather the idea is any aerodynamic effect can only be generated by the undertray making the cars cheaper to build, cheaper to run and making the technology more relevant to road cars (think Lotus 80 and Arrows A2 - two of the less succesful cars of the 1980's)

Are wingless cars coming to IRL?

There is also some discussion about moving to a 4 cylinder turbo charged engine which is a non-stressed component which, IRL believe, may encourage manufacturers back to the sport as the costs of building an engine which is, in effect, part of the chassis is very high.

The Delta Wing car is rumoured to be being shown at the Chicago Motor show tomorrow.

So, is this the future for F1? Although wings, side skirts, mass dampers and double diffusers might not seem directly relevant to road cars the technology and engineering which driver the development often find alternative applications for what you and I drive.

Is this a good idea for motor sport generally and will it make motor racing more relevant? Were the radical changes F1 made in 2009 not radical enough and doing away with front and rear wings is the way forward?

And on the engine, Max Mosely has been pushing for a standard engine; are IRL helping him on his way and going one stage further by making it a non-stressed component?
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
Found this as a suggestion of what the cars might look like...

 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I may be alone in this, but I rather like the look, if that is, indeed the concept. Aesthetically, the current front wings are an abomination, as are the shark fin engine covers. However, all of the wings are prime real estate for advertising, so I am not sure how receptive the racing community will be to eliminating them.

As for the Lotus 80, I always thought that it was not unattractive. According to Mario Andretti, there were 2 reasons for its lack of success: It produced LOTS of downforce, but the chassis was not stiff enough to support the loads properly (Chapman was ever the champion of lightweight construction), and it was very sensitive to ride height, which was difficult to control back then, but would not be so much so now.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
siffert_fan said:
I may be alone in this, but I rather like the look, if that is, indeed the concept.
You're not alone, I think that looks great.

Aesthetically, the current front wings are an abomination, as are the shark fin engine covers.
Again I'm in agreement and have just posted on the Force India thread about that in response to some comments by Muddytalker.

The problem with moving to standardised bodies (even more so than now) and standard power units is F1 will just be another spec' series and that's one thing it should never be.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I agree with you, Brogan. What I would like to see is an opening of engine design. Oh for the glory days of the mid 1960s, when F1 only stipulated an engine capacity of 3 liters! Thus we had V8s, V12s and the glorious BRM H16!!
 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Swift enter the competition too, with their Batmobile meets the Arrows Doodlebug effort.

Link
Once you get over the 'Hot Wheels' styling, I could really grow to like either this or the Delta.

 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
The problem with moving to standardised bodies (even more so than now) and standard power units is F1 will just be another spec' series and that's one thing it should never be.

I wasn't suggesting there should be a standardised chassis in F1 more that the doing away with front and rear wings could be an interesting move for F1. As has been mantioned, the amount of technical work which is going into the front wing design is unbelievable and, i'm sure, against the "spirit" of the new regulations. I suppose the problem is that if you stop the engineers messing about with wing designs they will just spend all their time playing about with underbody design.

BTW - the Delta Wing car is due to be unveiled at mid-day US central time. I'll see if I can find a picture when they take the wraps off.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
No, No and thrice No.

That looks awful.

I'm all for new and inovative designs but those narrow track front ends look nasty. I can't imagine how they would handle at speed.

I quite like the indy design at the top of the page though.
 
Considering Dallara is the current chassis provider I would think one of their 3 designs would get the nod. They seem more realistic as well.

The delta wing is certainly interesting and could work but would be a disaster from PR standpoint I think.



 

Muddytalker

Points Scorer
Hmmm - that video sim looked like some sort of clubman championship class, which is fine in itself, (I also think their cornering grip levels were rather optimistic), but not for premier level open-wheel racing.

The Dallaras don't look too bad, but aren't a massive deviation from the current indycars, and still have large front and rear wings.

Maybe Indycar/IRL need to focus on what they want to achieve first, and then come up with a design solution?
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I still like the looks of the original picture. The actual Delta proprosal looks rather too much like a land speed record attempt car.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
siffert_fan said:
The actual Delta proprosal looks rather too much like a land speed record attempt car.
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw it.

I can't understand the reasoning behind such a narrow track at the front.
That won't be at all helpful when cornering.
 

FB

Not my cup of cake
Valued Member
The basis of the design was supposed to be Craig Breedlove's Spirit of America car from 1967 so it's no surprise it made you all think that way.

 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
As for the dart shaped one personally I think they are gopping and if anything that shape ever graced F1 I'd probably put my own eyes out.
 

F1Yorkshire

Avatar for sale to the highest bidder
Contributor
The new IRL shapes are not a million miles away from this:



Could we see the X2010 or something similar on a track sometime soon?
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
Interesting thread, with current cars looking more futuristic like these pictures look like, by looking at this I started thinking "it's only a matter of time"

The car in the second post doesn't look too bad, but it looks Indy-ish not F1-ish...I quite like the red and yellow ones that Danny-boy put up, they still look a bit like the Indy cars, but just a bit more F1 wise.

I am getting quite tired of F1 trying to get this "green" image, and closer to road cars. As much as I would like a new manufacturer in F1, they come and go, F1 can survive without them.

I may complain about this sport a lot and the direction it's heading in...but one fact is, I always love it.
 
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