Current For FOTA's sake

Sauber have left FOTA, with rumours of Toro Rosso being next.

A team spokeswoman confirmed on Wednesday that Sauber was no longer going to continue being a member of FOTA for reasons, 'that have been fully explained to its members and will be kept private for now.'

Looks like it's the end of FOTA then.
 
Why won't any of them disclose why they're leaving FOTA?

They are probably fed up with the constant bickering about the RRA and getting nowhere.
In truth the RRA is a worthless unenforceable agreement FOTA specific and policed by FOTA themselves.It not part of the FIA regulations and depending on who you believe legally binding until 2017.But then other reports say that it is part of the current concorde agreement which expires at the end of 2012.
FOTA has no power to enforce financial penalties on any team the breaches the terms of the agreement all they can do reduce the amount of time that the team in question has availble for CFD or wind tunnel testing the next season.
If any team is in breach of the agreement the only legal recourse for the other teams is to sue the team accused of breaching the agreement.
So that in effect would mean each and every other team suing each other.
 
This is my take on each team...

I wouldn't be surprised to see Cateram leaving next. They might have a Red Bull junior driver (Ricciardo) racing for them next year and they they used the Red Bull gear box with the Renault KERS.

I'm not surprised McLaren, Mercedes and Force India are staying in FOTA and want the RRA. McLaren don't have that Mercedes money anymore more so lower costs enable them to stay competitive, Mercedes bought their own team when costs were decreasing and the RRA was just coming into place and Force India uses McLaren's technology and seems very close with Mercedes (the whole di Resta situation).

Toro Rosso will leave, don't even need to explain this one really. Unless Mateschitz wants his foot in both doors.

Virgin will probably stay as they entered F1 believing that there would be a budget cap.

Williams and Lotus will probably also stay, their both teams of the past with no real chance of competing at the sharp end of the grid. Both also cannot compete with the large teams in a spending war, especially Williams.

All of this of course is assuming that the other teams still see merit in FOTA, seeing as currently there's only 8 of the 12 teams still in the association, and that's with Toro Rosso being unable to comment on their position...
 
Maybe this is the reason for for Ferrari and Red Bull for leaving FOTA.
By doing so they are free to negotiate terms for themselves free from any FOTA restrictions.

http://www.pitpass.com/45432-Former-F1-owner-planning-another-bid The current draft of the Concorde prevents the teams from making any public statements about a rival series until the end of the 2012 F1 season. It also states that Ecclestone cannot make an offer to one team unless he "makes an offer to all of the teams on terms which are the same in all material respects." However, this restriction expires at the end of this month and Ecclestone says that "in the middle of next year we will start looking at making offers to the teams." He adds that "we are not doing anything at the moment because we are not free to do the things we want to do until next year." Offering a payment to tempt the teams to sign should break this gridlock and pave the way for CVC to maximise its return on exit. Only time will tell how and when this happens
 
In truth the RRA is a worthless unenforceable agreement
I 100% agree, there are many ways to hide expense so unless everything was ordered and paid for through a central body, that could also validate the expenditure was kosher, then it's fraught with opportunities for understating expenditure.
 
This whole thing is about some teams wanting to change the way the RRA is worded and closing off some of the loopholes that are in there (on purpose?). Some of the teams get away with spending way over the allocated amounts, but do so without breaking the RRA. This means that those teams like the situation as is, but the teams that have actually tried to stick to the spirit of the agreement and limit spending want the loopholes closed.

How do you get away with spending way too much?

Is a fairly simple exercise really. Imagine you own Bob Smith F1 Team and have billions of dollars in a bank account doing nothing, you want to spend this money but the RRA means you are (legally, sort of) obliged to limit what you spend. Now you are allowed a certain amount for external consultancy spending and this is where the breach comes in. Set up Bob Smith Motorsport, a totally seperate company with no financial link to your F1 team, buy them all the fancy toys, CFD, wind tunnels, the best staff etc etc and then start touting for business as a motorsport consultancy who can look at customers cars and improve them. Strangely enough your F1 team decides to spend their external budget on your motorsport team, what a coincidence and how fortuitous for you. Bob Smith Motorsport agree to provide design, testing and build services to Bob Smith F1 for exactly the amount the F1 team has for external spending, but unfortunately for Bob Smith Motorsport it finds out that the costs for providing these services way in exceed the quoted price charged. You can then throw money at Bob Smith Motorsports as it is not an F1 team and not bound by the RRA. You also get to right off any excess spent against tax personally. But this means that the team has obided by the RRA as they have not exceeded their allocated amount of spend, however their car has just cost 20 times the normal spending amount, but this is not a breach of the RRA so everyone is happy (apart from the teams who despite having mutli-billionaire owners are trying to stick to the spirit of the RRA and are not using the loopholes that are built into it).

So when the RRA comes onto the agenda again some teams want this overspend cut out, other teams (those with stupid amounts of money to spend and a corporate layout that lets them do this) want to keep this way of working in place. Then the split comes, people fall out and some people are definitely wanting to use this split to gain an advantage elsewhere (Revised entry agreements, prize money, appearance fees etc). The whole thing is the new boys who see the logic of limiting spending vs the old boys who see the benefits of spending your way to the front, but hiding the way you do it. It is not going to be resolved any time soon, possibly not until we see some of the old guard fall on their swords for the good of the sport, or some of the new boys backing out of the sport.
 
Fully agree Canis.And Bob Smith motorsports can be paid from the F1 team marketing budget which is outside the RRA agreement.
 
What actually gets me is that it is some of the big boys who seem to want this changed (Red Bull and Mercedes being prime examples). These are the teams who have the money and company setup to allow them to use these loopholes but they want this stopped. McLaren are holding their cards close to their chest over this one as no-one outside of the meetings seems to know which side of the fence they fall on, though it wouldn't surpise me if MW/RD are using Red Bull an Merc to push through something that will benefit them in terms of profitability of the team but will not make them the bad guys.

If you look at Ferrari then their spending is a little strange anyway. The parent company counts most of the F1 spend as "marketing" money anyway, as this is the only way they advertise Ferarri directly to the end customer. They do have GT customer teams who bring in some money to the company, but the spend on these teams is minute, and they are likely to be loosing some of these customers next year as well (rumours over 2 formally Ferarri running teams becoming customers of another manufacturer). I can't see Ferari wanting to limit their spending in any way as they have the financial clout right now to spend their way to the front (personal opinion rather than anything based on behind the scenes knowledge), and anything but wins is counted as a failure in the lovely corporate environment they work within. I think Ferarri do want to limit spending in F1, but only in the ways that gives them and advantage (not allowed to hire yourself a track for testing? No probs, we already have one...).

Like I said before, some teams are using this split in order to strengthen their positions elsewhere. Ferarri are now isolated and so can do the "If we don't get an agreement in place we will go spend our time somewhere else" line of negotiation with FOM over any new agreements. The problem being that Ferarri needs F1 just as much, if not more than, F1 needs Ferarri.
 
Hence my comment about Ferari wanting the spending restrictions but only where it favours them.

They are being very tactical and political about the whole affair, and most teams wouldn't think twice about capping the amount teams can spend on tracks for promotional days/testing as it doesn't seem a big part of the team spend. However, if they were to say change the testing agreements and sy you can do in season testing but here is your cap on the amount you can spend on it (something that has been suggested by Ferarri in the past few years on a number of occasions, mainly to try and bring back in season testing but still show their "commitment" to reducing costs) then teams such as Mercedes/Lotus(renault) etc are at a huge disadvantage as Ferarri would just be "given" time at their own company track hence meaning they got more testing than anyone else.

Don't get me wrong, I am not picking on Ferarri here as I am sure the other teams are looking to word things to their advantage as well, everyone is publically supporting the reduction of spend inside an F1 team, mainly as it means they make more of a profit out of running the team and sponsorship etc, but they all want it restricted in a way that will benefit them over their competitors. It has been mentioned before that FOTA was formed to stand against MM, and I do think it is right that with the lack of a common enemy the whole bond that brought them together has gone and the infighting an political maoevering is coming out. FOTA is a great idea, but it is always going to be difficult for competitors to agree on details which may or may not give some of them an advantage, the principles they need to apply they all agree on, but the implementation of these is where they will always end up fighting.
 
There is no way that any one of us can know just how much any team spends in a season.
All we have is news reports, which may or may not be accurate.

There are people who devote a considerable amount of time to investigating these matters, and whose publications are widely respected and quoted. Whether or not they get to the correct number of cents isn't really the point.
 
Imagine you own Bob Smith F1 Team and have billions of dollars in a bank account doing nothing, you want to spend this money but the RRA means you are (legally, sort of) obliged to limit what you spend. Now you are allowed a certain amount for external consultancy spending and this is where the breach comes in. Set up Bob Smith Motorsport, a totally seperate company with no financial link to your F1 team, buy them all the fancy toys, CFD, wind tunnels, the best staff etc etc and then start touting for business as a motorsport consultancy who can look at customers cars and improve them.
I posted essentially the same scenario a while ago. There are many ways around it. Another example would be a sponsor paying relatively little for advertizing but providing their goods and/or services for free. Its a tangled web a la team orders, maybe its best just to throw hands up in the air and say spend what you like, at least there'd be more honesty about it
 
I thought Red Bull were widely thought to have the largest budget in the last couple of years?

I haven't seen figures for 2011 yet, but for 2010 two studies had Ferrari comfortably (i.e. $100m+) ahead of Red Bull and McLaren, who were around a similar mark.
 
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