Ferrari were told to give back that place immediately

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
According to Autosport, Ferrari were instructed three times by Charlie Whiting to give back the place gained by Alonso, an instruction the team chose to ignore.

Makes you think about where the chump of the week award should lie, doesn't it?

Source: Autosport.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Nice try, I'm still going with Vettel.

I think Alonso was trying, in his own slightly deluded way, to 'do a Hamilton' and get far enough ahead that the drive through penalty would be ineffectual.

Another appointment with karma!
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Actually, TBY, I was suggesting the chump award should lie with Domenicali, as it was his judgement call to stay out.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
It is only for drivers, because I'm 100% sure that Christian Horner/Helmut Marko etc. would win if not!
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
My point, is that Alonso came into some flak for not giving back the place immediately, which some people used as reason for giving him the chump of the week award. As much as I dislike Alonso, this seems to exonerate him somewhat and also may explain why he was in such a foul mood for the rest of the race (because the team told him not to give back the place, costing him a drive through). It also suggests that Ferrari believe that they were above the rules and therefore fully deserving of a drive through penalty, as awarded.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Explains the "no more radio" comment and the acceptance of the punishment after the race, really.

I bet Alonso is absolutely hopping mad about this.

Btw, I love the contrast between Ferrari's two drivers when it comes to radio. You have one telling them to shut up and the other wanting a rally style co-driver!
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
So that's two now! We can add Ferrari to the list of teams seemingly doing their level best to alienate their best drivers.

Who's next I wonder? I might once have been tempted to add Mercedes, what with Mikey's 'superstition' about race numbers, the lengthening of the chassis when Nico was lying second in the standings after two podium finishes, etc. But Nico seems to be coming good again, so I'll hold a watching brief... for now at least.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Chad Stewarthill said:
So that's two now! We can add Ferrari to the list of teams seemingly doing their level best to alienate their best drivers.
I think that's pure speculation, unless the pit radio conversation comes out between Alonso and Domenicali as to whether he wanted to give back the position or not.

Only then will we know whether Alonse was overridden or not.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Whilst some of the blame does lie with Ferrari for not passing on the instruction, Alonso himself knows the rule and knew that he should have given the place back.

So I would say both parties are to blame, Alonso for not taking the initiative and Ferrari for thinking they're still bigger than the sport.
 

teabagyokel

#dejavu
Valued Member
Brogan said:
Ferrari for thinking they're still bigger than the sport.
My argument would be that they never have been bigger than the sport. And its sure as hell they never will be.

Ferrari's arrogance built through their long association is pitiful. Someone needs to tell them:

Ferrari were made by Formula One, Formula One was not made by Ferrari. Ferrari needs Formula One. Formula One does not need Ferrari.

Eliminating Ferrari, Formula One would still have many legends. The Alfas and Mercedes of the 50s are remembered as greats. Clark, Hill, Moss, Brabham and Stewart did not need the Prancing Horse in the early days. Senna and Piquet never drove for them, whilst Prost and Mansell had their careers diminished rather than enhanced by association with Ferrari. It has not done Fernando Alonso or Kimi Raikkonen a lot of good reputation wise, despite Kimi's title in 2007.

Enough of the legends have driven for Lotus, Williams or McLaren for you lot to be a festering pool of arrogance and unfulfulled self-worth.
 

cider_and_toast

Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex
Staff Member
Premium Contributor
Formula One does not need Ferrari.
Absolutely true but for a while the powers that be needed Ferrari. They were the loose canon on the deck of the good ship FIA and their complicity was effectively purchased in order to keep them on side.

I think we can all pretty much guess who was involved and how that was allowed to happen. It was hanging over the sport for too many years and in my opinion almost brought F1 to it's knees.

Thankfully it would seem that these days are over.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Can anyone see the stupidity in these two statements?

"As soon as we received the information that in the opinion of the stewards, Fernando should have given back the position to Robert, Robert was already very far behind and Robert was really slowing down because he had a problem."
"And we told them that immediately, right after the overtaking manoeuvre. On the radio, I suggested to them that if they exchange position again, there would be no need for the stewards to intervene.
Idiots.
 

cosicave

Banned
fat_jez said:
My point, is that Alonso came into some flak for not giving back the place immediately, which some people used as reason for giving him the chump of the week award. As much as I dislike Alonso, this seems to exonerate him somewhat and also may explain why he was in such a foul mood for the rest of the race (because the team told him not to give back the place, costing him a drive through). It also suggests that Ferrari believe that they were above the rules and therefore fully deserving of a drive through penalty, as awarded.
This is a very good point. However, Alonso also knows what precedents have been set, and what penalties lie in store for any transgression of the rules.

There can be no doubt whatsoever, that the result of this manoeuvre regardless of the preceding moments, resulted in Alonso gaining a place, whilst going off track. Various precedents have been set. The punishment for non-compliance is well known and understood. What could be simpler?

Any attempt to gain advantage in spite of this knowledge, was foolhardy to say the least.

I promise you all, that under the circumstances, with the rules as they currently stand are - and have stood for several years, I would have given the place back to Kubica immediately. - No question!
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
cosicave said:
I would have given the place back to Kubica immediately. - No question!
Cos, I've just had that Dominic E Carlo on't phone, 'e were wondering like, if you'd like to jump in f't next race, says Fernando got a bit carried away wit t'football celebrations and slipped in't fountain and got a spout in't his gubbins - So if yer free and can make i't'germany yer more than welcome.
 

cosicave

Banned
Hahahahahahaha..................... No! - In case you have not noticed, I have my principles!

It takes more than money to twist my arm…
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
Alonso and Ferrari both know the rules, both know the precedents that have been set (quite happy for Massa to take the presented win in Spa) and therefore got exactly what they both deserved.
 

snowy

Champion Elect
You don't wait for the team to tell you to give the place back if you have any sense. By the time they've made up their collective mind you'd lose so many opportunities of making a genuine pass. And there is always the chance that the person you overtook will have lost another place.

In Spa Lewis gave the place straight back, his only crime was thinking ahead then overtaking Kimi again fairly and on the brakes into the next turn. Something that the Stewards seemed unable to comprehend...
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
snowy said:
In Spa Lewis gave the place straight back, his only crime was thinking ahead then overtaking Kimi again fairly and on the brakes into the next turn. Something that the Stewards seemed unable to comprehend...
You mean like this? ;)


Notice how Brundle mentions the advantage Alonso has by driving straight across the chicane. He then says:
Brundle said:
He did all the right things. Gave the place back and then snatched it straight back again.
Note also how Allen is gushing over how great a driver Alonso is by willingly giving the place back.

So, what was different between this and Spa 2008?
Both cut the chicane. Both gained a slight advantage. Both conceded the place. Both retook the place before the next corner.

As I've already said, Alonso knows the rules. He chose not to follow them.
 
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