Grand Prix 2022 Japanese Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

this weekend is the return to 1 of the great circuits & countries on the F1 calendar. Suzuka so many iconic corners & most of the drivers favourite place on the calendar, should be no surprise with corners like the S Curves, the Degner's, Spoon curve, 130R, & Casio triangle. although Sky F1 were bit optimistic, doing the usual line before previewing the next race
"remember what happened last time"
no actually it was 2019, alot has happened since, Hulkenberg was Riccardio's teammate at Renault last time we raced here

intrestingly the Origins of the Suzuka circuit, have their starts at the isle of man TT. Soichiro Honda primary objective was to observe the Isle of Man TT Races with his own eyes he discussed this when going over to the UK "It was when I first went to see the Isle of Man TT Races in 1954. What amazed me was seeing machines running with about three times greater power than we had been considering. From Italy, Germany and England, they all came together to the Isle of Man and I watched them shoot off like arrows. Not only were these machines unlike any we'd ever seen before, we'd never even dreamed of such a sight. When I went and saw that, my first reaction was a shock of disappointment. I had gone there after spreading talk all over Japan about how Honda would enter the TT Races, so this was a terrible shock to me." he would enter in 1958 for the 1st time & he would take a minor victory in 1959

Soichiro Honda, made a speech in later on in 1959 in a push to keep his success during a meeting to propose the construction of Japan's 1st full-scale road racing circuit "I want to have a venue for motor racing. Automobiles cannot be improved if they are not put through their paces on the racing circuit." The layout for suzuka had featured 2 hairpin turns & 3 multilevel crossings was originally completed in August 1960, but due to rising construction expenses & other setbacks, layout had to be revised to the 1 we see today. A ceremony commemorating the completion of Suzuka was held on September 1962.

the opening event for the newly finished Suzuka Circuit, All-Japan Road Racing Championships took place 2 months later, an event that still take place to this day. they had expected 100,000 spectators on each of the 2 days. Instead, according to reports 270,000 people came out to witness the 1st event of this kind in Japan. but the weather gods weren't kind to them as the 1st day had a torrential rainstorm, according to Honda historians, men & women in suits & dresses were covered in mud & the local shops completely sold out of socks & underwear. the racing went ahead regardless the most historic thing that happened that day was a certain Ernst Degner who was the 1st person to crash at the new Suzuka circuit, when he fell at Turn 8. otherwise now known as the Degners


but back to the present day, this is the week when we are all expecting that Verstappen becomes a 2 time world champion, to say he would deserve it, is an understatement because he hung in at the start of the year took advantage when ferrari where the better team with great consistency. & Then was in a league of his own after the summer break with some outstanding drives

also on personal view its great i cant watch this race live for the 1st time but getting up at 5.30am before my most busiest day of the week. i may regret by 2pm LOL

 
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F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
hallelujah GIF
 

Tuscan1969

Podium Finisher
Looks like FIA will do just about anything to award Max a WDC.

This "sport" is now a farce.

Expect next week's finance report to completey exonerate Red Bull.

Bring back Bernie and Max M.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Ok, so reading the regs, it seems that they have been terribly drafted.

  • If a race is suspended, but then restarted, and run to the 2-hour (or 3 hour) clock, then full points are awarded
  • If a race is suspended, and not restarted, then partial points will be awarded.
What makes this absolutely ludicrous, is that today, they could have run for, say, 5 laps and awarded full points…
45DEA796-2FC6-403B-972F-A1A6B4A771B3.jpeg
 

Il_leone

World Champion
Race control having a mare with having a recovery vehicle on the track. I’m sure the FIA will blame Pierre Gasly for crashing.
Well he is going to get done for excessive speeding but that does not hide the fact with the tractor out was unacceptable given VSC was negated because the red flag was issued so they could have made sure all cars were back in the pits first
 

Il_leone

World Champion
Farcical ending once again Verstappen wins a championship under a cloud..no doubt the cost report will deduct only a few points to ensure no shambolic coronation..so are Red Bull going to miss any races now oh he gas not given the 3rd driver a practice session ironically so any chance Colton Herta will show up next race
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
Um, why have they awarded full points? Surely Max should need to go to Austin and score 1 point for the championship? They were below 75% race distance…
i know. nobody knew even the team bosses where confused. as Christian horner said post race. he thought they hadnt done it regardless of Charles leclerc. but it some wording which is confusing that meant its only reduced points if they stop & dont restart but because it concluded naturally he couldve done final 10 mins got full points despite doing 10 laps
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
Well he is going to get done for excessive speeding but that does not hide the fact with the tractor out was unacceptable given VSC was negated because the red flag was issued so they could have made sure all cars were back in the pits first
i agree that it was unacceptable for that tractor to be on the circuit, while cars were on the circuit. who ever allowed deserves a talking to. & also getting some lights on the tractor that work would be nice

but gasly has to take some blame. you can see on the dash. he was doing 150mph in 5th gear. he shouldve been doing pit lane speed at that time

Farcical ending once again Verstappen wins a championship under a cloud..no doubt the cost report will deduct only a few points to ensure no shambolic coronation..so are Red Bull going to miss any races now oh he gas not given the 3rd driver a practice session ironically so any chance Colton Herta will show up next race
is it farcical winning, very confusing rules agreed, but this post race stewarding decision i thought wouldve been alot less controversial than his 1st as it was sheer desperation from leclerc at the end, as if it wasn't blocking, it was certainly leaving the circuit & gaining an advantage
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Regulation 6.5 could have been fixed with a very simple wording. Instead of "If a race is suspended..." the wording could have begun with "If a race does not run for its complete, scheduled distance, points will be awarded for each title in accordance with the following criteria".

However, I do understand why you might want the regulations written as they currently are:
  • If a race is suspended, and not restarted, then the suspension is usually "random" - that is, the teams and drivers cannot plan around the scheduled finish. (So, drivers might have pitted just before the suspension)
  • If a race is shortened, but capped by the 3-hour limit, then teams will know beforehand when the race will finish - as such, they can decide to pit or not according to an optimised strategy, based on the shorter race.
The bit that this doesn't take account of, though, is when a driver would have had a technical failure in the 180th mile of a race, but that doesn't now happen because of the fore-shortened race. (It's a bit like saying - well, we'll award full prize money for the London Marathon, even though it's been shortened to 1,500 metres, and those who have prepared for 1,500 metre races will have an advantage).
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
Some of the posters here must be lots of fun on a jury. Having seen NO evidence, they are pronouncing RB guilty. They also tend to heap vitriol on Max while having complained vehemently about "haters" of Hamilton.
i was taking that regardless who is guilty they should be punished

The Artist..... agreed it is ridiculous because i thought it simple if you half distance you got half points
 

Il_leone

World Champion
Ok, so reading the regs, it seems that they have been terribly drafted.

  • If a race is suspended, but then restarted, and run to the 2-hour (or 3 hour) clock, then full points are awarded
  • If a race is suspended, and not restarted, then partial points will be awarded.
What makes this absolutely ludicrous, is that today, they could have run for, say, 5 laps and awarded full points…
View attachment 15984
Guess who wrote the rules after Spa farce?? Michael Masi ...so why do him and Red Bull seem to be a cocktail for controversy

I think I will copyright that as an F1 slogan "Double Red Bull Masi!" every controversial Red Bull win is always got a bitter taste of Masi
 

Hamberg

Those who know, they know
Contributor
Whether this race or next Max was going to win the WDC this year and I can’t fault him. He’s been masterful. Max deserved to cross the line and know he’d done it, not following a points farce and penalty. This is another FIA shit show.

The rules as written were followed explicitly. We’ve been crying out for fast decisions. I’m not sure why people are so pissed off.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Guess who wrote the rules after Spa farce?? Michael Masi ...so why do him and Red Bull seem to be a cocktail for controversy

I think I will copyright that as an F1 slogan "Double Red Bull Masi!" every controversial Red Bull win is always got a bitter taste of Masi
I’m not sure that that’s true. The rules will have been written and ratified by the FIA sporting commission. Whilst Masi may have had a voice (I’m not sure that he did), there are many other voices who could have overruled it.
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Well he is going to get done for excessive speeding but that does not hide the fact with the tractor out was unacceptable given VSC was negated because the red flag was issued so they could have made sure all cars were back in the pits first
There are lots of things that are wrong with the marshalling at Suzuka - but I agree that the tractor should not have been on track. I think that there are lessons that need to be learnt from this weekend:
  1. Drivers are going to ignore the explicit rules relating to double waved yellows. (I.e. No overtaking, slow down, and be prepared to stop). I think that it was correct to penalise Gasly, but penalties need to be ramped up. If a driver does it in practice or qualifying, they should be disqualified from the race. If a driver does it in the race, it should be an instant black flag. Ultimately, under a safety car, if you race past the scene of an accident, you should be given a 1-race ban
  2. This is not the first time that Suzuka has had a tractor on the circuit. After this, I wonder whether F1 should go to Suzuka, or whether a proper, modern F1 track would be more appropriate
  3. Suzuka is too narrow, develops too many rivers, and doesn't have sufficient run off in many parts. Because of the circuit design, there is also not room to develop better run offs in many places.
In 1997, F1 vowed never to return to Jerez, because of a minor podium transgression. IN 2022, having allowed a tractor onto the course, Suzuka should not be on the calendar any more.
 

F1Brits_90

Champion Elect
The Artist..... on 1 - i agree drivers need to have a bit of common sense. we see it far too often in qualifying where they keep pushing on or dip it by 3mph. then hoping to get away with it in the stewards &. what happened to the rule that you must abandon your qualifying lap if double yellows are shown . in ideal scenario when a double yellow/red flag is on the dash then the pit lane speed limiter would automatically come on


i find it tough to get rid of suzuka, because it is a 1 of the greatest tests of a car up with spa & silverstone. all the drivers were saying how this was there favourite & i think there would massive uproar on par of Italian gp leaving monza if you left suzuka. do we really want a proper, modern F1 track circuit that would be soulless like Korea, India, Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Russia . but a serious investigion would be need to find how that tractor was allowed on the circuit before everyone had passed the incident
 

Hamberg

Those who know, they know
Contributor
Rather than a delta time a maximum KPH should be established for double waved yellows and (V)SC periods. Then we’d also negate the issue of cars that have established a good gap having that wiped out under Safety Cars. I’m guessing there is a valid reason that’s not implemented?
 

The Artist.....

Champion Elect
Rather than a delta time a maximum KPH should be established for double waved yellows and (V)SC periods. Then we’d also negate the issue of cars that have established a good gap having that wiped out under Safety Cars. I’m guessing there is a valid reason that’s not implemented?
I'd go with that... Maximum speed of 50kph through double waved yellows - but you'd need to have a way of smoothing the decelleration, so that cars didn't have to haul on the brakes when double waved yellows are out but the track is "live"
 
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