Drivers vs. Car

[Jru]

For the Vettel hamilton switch, I think that most likely Hamilton would have fewer points, but Vettel would have far fewer too! Hamilton seems unable to avoid some kind of drama most of the time, and I think that there is no way that Vettel could have forced that McLaren to the places Hamilton has taken it. So all in all each driver is in their zone at the moment, and it is providing an awesome spectacle.

 

[Galahad]

It's about 7% between the fastest contemporary F1 car and the slowest.

It's a long time since there were two drivers in identical cars with 7% between them. Even pay drivers generally didn't fall foul of that one.

 

[Jen]

Nice but not necessary. And besides consensus is the mother of monotony.

Sorry Snowy, I deleted a bit of my post that didn't make sense to me! Still don't know what I was trying to say but think it might have been this:

"It would be nice if there could be a consensus on importance of the driver to the sport"

 

[Jen]

I should also add that the question of "is it the car or the driver" is one that has been asked of motor racing, in all it's forms, ever since man has raced a car. As technology increased the input of the driver has been questioned more and more but it's nearly always the fastest driver in the fastest car who wins and at the moment it's Sebastien Vettel and the Red Bull. Personally, I think if Vettel and Hamilton were to swap seats it would be closer than we think.

Nuff said really

 

[RevMaxPower]

Logically, the better the car the less the driver should have to do to succeed. If it's quick AND handles well then ANY F1 driver should find himself on a podium. I agree with DC - probably 80/20, if not 90/10 in favour of the car.

 

[Fenderman]

Can a spanner undo a nut?

 

[Jen]

Stating the bleeding obvious - no driver, no race.

 

[RevMaxPower]

Can a Pac Man wearing dark glasses and sporting an Afro hairstyle operate a small red pedal car? Not very well, in all likelihood...

 

[Porceliamone]

Enjoy!

 

[RevMaxPower]

18 slow cars - no race either...

 

[snowy]

Sorry Snowy, I deleted a bit of my post that didn't make sense to me! Still don't know what I was trying to say but think it might have been this:

"It would be nice if there could be a consensus on importance of the driver to the sport"

I agree. Discuss:

 

[Fenderman]

Axle! I rest my case!

 

[Sarinaide]

As a fan I will say it is 110% Alonso -10% Ferrari!

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

The age old question
David Coulthard reckons it's about 80% car and 20% driver.

Well, I suppose that makes him feel better about his own F1 record.

 

[Sarinaide]

Well, I suppose that makes him feel better about his own F1 record.

Better than Martin Brundle, mr win nothing talk a lot of turkey.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

I do find it faintly amusing that so many people go on about "It's mostly the car" and yet when we talk about 'all-time greats', what are we discussing? Not the cars, by and large, but the drivers. Whether you think it's Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Fangio or whoever, we accept that some drivers are considerably better than others.

In my view (since I haven't yet answered Nathaniel's original question and it's time I did) Hamilton is the better driver and the Red Bull is the better car. So if they switched, it stands to reason that I think it would be 5-0 to Hamilton.

 

[Sarinaide]

I do find it faintly amusing that so many people go on about "It's mostly the car" and yet when we talk about 'all-time greats', what are we discussing? Not the cars, by and large, but the drivers. Whether you think it's Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Fangio or whoever, we accept that some drivers are considerably better than others.

In my view (since I haven't yet answered Nathaniel's original question and it's time I did) Hamilton is the better driver and the Red Bull is the better car. So if they switched, it stands to reason that I think it would be 5-0 to Hamilton.

It is all to easy to summise as such, that said to be very fair to Vettel he is still a pretty good driver any way you slice it. Lewis has a bigger car, but RBR have the better aerodynamics and downforce so I don't think Lewis has really been at such a disadvantage.

I am just wondering if the people say the same for Alonso, whether he was in a RB he would be walking away with it?

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

It is all to easy to summise as such, that said to be very fair to Vettel he is still a pretty good driver any way you slice it. Lewis has a bigger car, but RBR have the better aerodynamics and downforce so I don't think Lewis has really been at such a disadvantage.

I am just wondering if the people say the same for Alonso, whether he was in a RB he would be walking away with it?

Just my opinion. Margins are small at this level. Just because I firmly believe Hamilton to be the better driver of the two, that doesn't make Vettel in any way a poor driver; he's the reigning WDC after all.
And what has the size of the car to do with anything? If RBR have better aerodynamics and downforce, that surely makes their car likely to be better. If anything, around Monaco you could argue that size (particularly length) would be a disadvantage.

I am sure that Alonso would be up there too if in a Red Bull, as all three are pretty close in ability I think.
It's just that the original question was about Vettel / Hamilton.

 

[Slyboogy]

Reading through this article, it seems to be a dig mostly at Vettel, and pro Hamilton.

Would have Hamilton won the same races as Vettel same car? Yes...but 5? I really doubt his tyres would have lasted for another 8 laps in China if he used Vettel's strategy...

Is it the driver? Well, it's definitely a combination of both, sometimes one driver has to have a perfect set-up like Button to have a chance of winning, others can win in a lesser car like Schumacher used to back in 95-99.

You can't really say it's just the car, teams have identical cars for both of the drivers, yet there are many drivers that outshine their team-mates constantly.

50/50 for me, obviously you need a good car, there is no way a driver can make up for a car being a second down on the top one, it's just not possible, maybe in wet races or a better strategy but a straight fight? No...

 

[Sarinaide]

Just my opinion. Margins are small at this level. Just because I firmly believe Hamilton to be the better driver of the two, that doesn't make Vettel in any way a poor driver; he's the reigning WDC after all.
And what has the size of the car to do with anything? If RBR have better aerodynamics and downforce, that surely makes their car likely to be better. If anything, around Monaco you could argue that size (particularly length) would be a disadvantage.

I am sure that Alonso would be up there too if in a Red Bull, as all three are pretty close in ability I think.
It's just that the original question was about Vettel / Hamilton.

Sorry about the "big thing" what I meant was the better powered car. I don't really think that McLaren are as far off as people suggest, bad decisions and frustration are costing them.