Converting poles to wins

[vintly]

It's the comparisons that can be trivial, not the records. Obvious but important distinction. Hamilton's record stands up on its own merit, regardless of anyone else's. They are all relevant for their era and competition at that time, but much less so when placed against each other. Yadda yadda bring on the time trials

 

[FB]

But to "break" a record you have to have a comparator. Yes, Hamilton's achievement is fantastic but all we are being told is that "he has beaten Schumacher's record". Well woop de doo, as you say the two are not comparable. In exactly the same way as when Prost passed Stewart's record for race wins. It was a great achievement by Prost, it meant nothing in comparison to Stewart, unless there is some statistician out there who can actually work out a way to genuinely compare the achievement of two very disparate times or find a time machine to move the drivers in to different eras.

 

[olegg]

From a racing point of view, olegg, pole position in modern F1 is almost vital. However, my problem with all records in F1 today (not just pole) is that they have been devalued by the lack of competitiveness on the grid and the much larger number of races on the calender.

"the much larger number of races on the calender" is an additional burden on the driver
but certainly not the fact that the championship is easier to win

Michael Schumacher was, without doubt, one of the greatest drivers ever to sit in an F1 car but in 2002 Schumie won 11 of the 17 races and then 13 of 18 in 2004. Yes, he won the races as he was a great driver in a car that was the class of the field. In terms of the challenge and challengers there was very little (none?). This doesn't devalue his achievement but it needs to be put in perspective.

With all due respect to the merits of Schumacher
for many fans of Formula 1 the years of sole dominance Schumacher were
one of the most dull for the championship.
The champion was determined far away before the end of the season
and was not even a hint of any competition.

The comment which sticks with me over recent years was when Hamilton made comments about the quality of Indy car racing and the drivers after Alonso went to the 500 and came close to winning. The very cutting remark from one of the American drivers was that Lewis finished second in a two car championship in F1. Just about sums it up really.

I have nothing against the Indy 500. I'm just not interested this american kind of race.
But since you brought it up as an example...
Well, Yes. And the driver of the Indy 500 can be women or those
who because of their physical form is simply not to fit into a Formula 1 car.
Or example Takumo Sato. He is very good now in Indy 500 but in Formula 1
he regularly lost to his teammates.

Alonso is certainly a great driver.
But when a person comes without experience in this championship
and is fighting for the podium against the leaders
it does not speak as plus for this championship.
Hamilton just answered the question. And what is not right in his words?
He could either refuse to answer or tell the false.

 

[Rutherford]

vintly
The record is trivial. The record says nothing except that a driver achieved X amount of poles during his career without taking other factors into account.

 

[vintly]

Rutherford 7,640,000 Google search results for the term 'Hamilton pole record' says it isn't trivial

I appreciate it may be trivial to you, fair enough, but it's not trivial per se.

 

[RasputinLives]

There are prob more google searches for Cat video so do we have to take those serious too?

 

[Rutherford]

vintly Not all of the articles are about the pole record. You simply found a bunch of articles including at minimum one of those words...
What does it mean then, if it's not trivial?

Of course, it's something for the Sky reporters to get off on, but for the rest? Nah.

 

[olegg]

Rutherford 7,640,000 Google search results for the term 'Hamilton pole record' says it isn't trivial
I appreciate it may be trivial to you, fair enough, but it's not trivial per se.

You take his words too seriously.
This is the usual trolling.
And in general the perception of such records is highly dependent
on whose fan you are.
It is not surprising that fans of Schumacher or Hamilton's haters
now claim that record with a poles means nothing.

For example Kimi fans claim that the record for fast laps in the race -
it's very cool.

 

[Rutherford]

Thanks for the laugh.

Where can I collect the sticker 'Certified Hater'?
It's a matter of personal opinion whether one attributes a meaning to records.

 

[vintly]

It's a matter of personal opinion whether one attributes a meaning to records.

Precisely. Which is why I said I appreciate it may be trivial to you. Your angst at others finding pole records more interesting, is actually quite trivial.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Moderator chat.

Please keep the conversation polite. Things are starting to get a little personal.

Thanks.

CaT the Mod