Blown diffusers to continue in 2012?

[tranquility2k9]

Hmm.. so are Blown Diffusers going to continue into 2012?

Looks like Red Bull and McLaren are protesting the latest change in the regs and arguing their car design was already to a point where this will have negative effects on their 2012 campaign. Meanwhile, Sauber and HRT are on the opposite side of the table (no surprises there). But then it is Ferrari who join them, Ferrari have never mastered the EBD concept to the same level as RB and McLaren and I think they fancy their chances without it.

I have to say that Red Bull and McLaren have viable arguments as it isn't right for the FIA to just keep on randomly changing the regs like they seem to fairly often these days.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-blown-exhaust-saga-set-to-heat-up-again/

 

[Slyboogy]

Hmm.. so are Blown Diffusers going to continue into 2012?

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-blown-exhaust-saga-set-to-heat-up-again/

I hope not

 

[Greenlantern101]

 

[Slyboogy]

Sauber have dropped the EBD half way through this season since they knew it was going to get banned for next season, hence why they are struggling compared to Force India and Toro Rosso. HRT are sticking with Cosworth and we know Cosworth are behind in this development area, none of the Renault engine supplied teams are going to say no to it since they will have an advantage. Ferrari have been building their 2012 car without the EBD since it was known to have been banned early on in the season, but unlike Sauber they have continued with the EBD this season.

Seems a bit unfair for the above teams if you ask me since the ban on the EBD was confirmed halfway through the season. The other teams (Red Bull and McLaren) could have complained back then for this season, instead it seems as if they have brought this issue up now so that the FIA are forced into a situation.

 

[mjo]

And I also hate the noise they make - we want a nice sound, not one that sounds like a cat being struck by lightning.

 

[sobriety]

I must be the minority then as I quite like the overrun noise, probably due to growing up around big single cylinder dirt bikes

 

[Slyboogy]

Some sound not bad....but the Renault one???

 

[jez101]

There are two parts to the blown diffuser issue. One is where the exhausts exit, the other is whether the gas can be blown when the driver is off the throttle (OTT).This article and this row is not really about blown diffusers, it is about whether gasses can be blown through the new exit locations.

The Silverstone ban fell apart because there was no destriction on the exit location and a slippery slope argument that some OTT blowing was necessary for reliability of Mercedes in particular. I think Ferrari and Alonso lost any remote chance of winning the WDC in those meetings and Christian Horner played a blinder. His hissy fit was brilliant and it worked.

The FIA then laid down regulations for 2012 on where the exhausts could exit, but they didn't say what OTT blowing was allowed, presumably as it was in the "bit too difficult category".

So some nice chaps went away and designed their new cars on the basis that exhausts were not a priority. Others though, having seen what you can do by blowing the diffuser, no doubt started to test blowing other aero parts (like the rear wing perhaps?) just out of curiosity.

The quote from Webber is "Maybe we can still enjoy this concept."

Ross Brawn said as much in an Autosport piece a week or so back. The genie is out of the bottle now. Here is a highly controllable airflow available to designers to experiment with. Remember McLaren's octopus last winter...?

 

[tooncheese]

I have to say that Red Bull and McLaren have viable arguments as it isn't right for the FIA to just keep on randomly changing the regs like they seem to fairly often these days.

They were told that it would be banned at Silverstone, I highly doubt either had 2012 designs beyond a few drawings scrawled on a cigarette packet. Surely the other teams can equally say their 2012 car is too advanced and it is now very hard to fit EBD on.

 

[Brogan]

According to this article, off-throttle blowing has definitely been banned for next year.

Formula 1 teams will be unable to use any form of off-throttle blowing of exhausts next season after a fresh bid to allow the practice was blocked by Ferrari, Sauber and HRT ahead of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

A move to ban blown diffusers in 2012 through the mandatory use of periscope exhausts had not been enough to quell fears that some outfits could still try and make use of hot gases to help boost the aerodynamic performance of their cars - perhaps by blowing air over suspension components or wings.

Those suspicions resulted in the FIA issuing a technical directive last month informing teams that there will be severe limitations on engine mapping next year to minimise the possibilities of off-throttle blowing.

The timing of that decision left several teams unhappy, because they had already begun designing their 2012 cars assuming that blowing could still be implemented – a practice that uses up fuel so would require a larger fuel tank.

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh said in India: "The clarification is a bit late and a few people wasted a bit of time, money and effort, but that is the same for all of us. We will look forward now."

Outside of that move, teams were pushing for the 2012 regulations to allow off-throttle blowing – with sources suggesting that unanimous approval was reached among them for this prior to their submission to the Formula 1 Commission last week for ratification.

However, the rules were rejected by the F1 Commission – with Ferrari, Sauber and HRT all deciding to vote against the regulations as they stood and forcing them back to think tank the Technical Working Group for amendment.

More here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96112

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Oh for the love of god. Why say your gonna ban something then change your mind 5 minutes later. Either ban it and stick to the ban.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

If the new rules require exhausts to exit via a periscope a distance away from the aero parts of the car, surely that means off throttle exhaust blowing will be of absolutely no advantage

Or am I missing something?

 

[The Pits]

There have been articles showing that if the teams are clever (Cue Adrian) blowing of aero parts at the rear of the car is possible by tailoring the exhaust outlets carefully (within the rules) they could be made to blow the beam wing (possibly) or the rear upper wing (more likely)

this does however mean that the teams are effectively starting the whole thing again, from a different angle.

The teams have spent the last two years working out clever ways to harness the otherwise wasted energy within the exhaust gasses, and I see that continuing. As the expression goes, you cannot unlearn something you have learned.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Surely the regulators have mandated the exact location of the periscope exhaust to prevent another war, it's not like this hasnt all happened before, like exhaust blowing hasn't occurred and got legislated out in the past

 

[jez101]

They tried and failed once to ban off throttle so I don't know how they are dealing with the Silverstone issues, but even if they ban off throttle, there is still quite a bit they can do on throttle. Wherever the exit it, teams are going to look at what they can do with the energy. So they should.

 

[Galahad]

I remember articles from ten or more years ago regarding teams using the previous upper exit exhausts to 'blow' the beam wing, so it's nothing new. It was never anything like as effective as the blown diffuser, though, and the off-throttle issue is doubtless part of that.

I don't think you can eliminate it altogether without pushing the exhaust exits out the back of the car 1960s style, with obvious safety implications.

 

[downforce]

Sauber have dropped the EBD half way through this season since they knew it was going to get banned for next season, hence why they are struggling compared to Force India and Toro Rosso. HRT are sticking with Cosworth and we know Cosworth are behind in this development area, none of the Renault engine supplied teams are going to say no to it since they will have an advantage. Ferrari have been building their 2012 car without the EBD since it was known to have been banned early on in the season, but unlike Sauber they have continued with the EBD this season.

Seems a bit unfair for the above teams if you ask me since the ban on the EBD was confirmed halfway through the season. The other teams (Red Bull and McLaren) could have complained back then for this season, instead it seems as if they have brought this issue up now so that the FIA are forced into a situation.

Interesting, I had no idea Sauber had dropped the EBD at all, nevr mind halfway through the year, they could be pretty good next year.

 

[Mephistopheles]

As far as I can tell Ferrari are voting against it so that will be that.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

As far as I can tell Ferrari are voting against it so that will be that.

And Sauber and HRT. Most likely because the Ferrari engine isn't accustomed to blowing diffusers, HRT simply can't afford to develop a blown diffuser. If this is the case perhaps the reason Toro Rosso aren't joining the other Ferrari powered teams is because essentially their vote belongs to Red Bull who incidently have developed the blown diffuser concept well and can afford an arms race.

 

[The Pits]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not Colin Kolles threatening to protest the EBD from around Monaco which spurred the changes at Silverstone, and the subsequent 2012 regs in that area?