Bernie only wants 10 teams

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
In yet another crass display, Bernie has demonstrated exactly what he thinks of the new teams.

"All we ever want is 10 teams," he said. "Lotus is a good name. I wouldn't want to lose them. But in general this year has been a bit of a nuisance because it has cost money to keep these teams in. It has cost a lot of money to pay for them to compete."

He also goes on to say they he expects a couple of them to drop out before the end of the season. Presumably that couple being HRT and Virgin.

Bernie's problem is he has forgotten where most of the current teams came from and how long it took them to get where they are.

When the odds are so stacked against new teams with regards to the testing restrictions, is it any wonder that they struggle to compete?

If the new teams do drop out and then the "13th" team for next year also drops out due to not having enough preparation or testing time then that says more about the current state of F1 than it does those teams.

I can't help thinking that under new management, F1 would be better for all concerned, the teams, the circuit owners, the sponsors and the fans.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85609
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/24557.html
 

MCLS

Anti F1 fan
Valued Member
Problem is, they give the new teams less than a year to build a car and get funding, they have very little time to become competitive, look at HRT, they only had a few months to build a car. Really they should be announcing the 2012 teams now to give them enough time to build a decent car.
 

fat jez

Race Winner
Valued Member
Absolutely, Supremo. You can't have it both ways either. Whose idea was it to have 13 teams on the grid in the first place? If the teams can't make it on merit, they shouldn't be there on charity. The fact that Bernie claims he was giving them money to compete suggests he wanted them there.

Sometimes, I think he just opens his mouth and lets his belly rumble if he thinks it will get him column inches!
 
Lotus are the team I am most impressed with they had the lest amount of time to prepare for this season and they are easily the best of the new teams (although Virgin are starting to look good) and I think n ext season we will see them mixing it in the midfield.
 

Speshal

World Champion
Valued Member
Bullfrog said:
A weak attempt to deflect attention away from Hockenheim perhaps?

x 2

And totally agree about the testing ban, seeing as HRT first turned a wheel at the first grand prix.
 

MajorDanby

Motorsports' answer to Eric the Eel
Contributor
My opinion of Mr. E is a mixed one. He undoubtably did great things with the sport in the 60/70/80/90s, taking it from a sport with a minority following, to the global enterprise that we have today, and he should be thanked for that.

Sadly I think he has now lost his way. He is all about money and seems to have left the sport and the good will of the fans at the wayside.

His negotiating tactics are misplaced in the modern world, making ultimatums, and demands in order to encourage people to fall into his way of thinking. It's like the stick and the carrot, but without the carrot. I hate to suggest that that age and senility are becoming part of his make up, but his decisions and demands have steadily grown more outrageous as the years have progressed. He is in the pockets of the sponsors and agglomerations that he has bought in over the years, and seems to have lost all sense of what this sport means to the wider world. In essence he has lost touch with his roots and I believe it is time for a change at the helm.

He was instrumental in bringing the new teams in, and seems to have forgotten that the field was in danger of stagnating. As other posters have alluded to, these teams need more time, and the powers that be keep on pressing them into rash decisions, and expecting too much too quickly. The difficulties for the 13th team will be 10 fold what we have seen experienced by the back of the field this year, and Bernie just seems to be setting them up for failure.

I am extremely disappointed with this decision, and would be the first to advocate change.
 

slickskid

Points Scorer
Supporter
BritishRacingGreen said:
I was really disappointed when ART withdrew there application as I think they had a chance to become a Midfield team or a front runninng team.

Couldn't agree more on the disapointed side i to believe they would have made a really good go of it. Have to give them credit though for realising that the constraints in place especially time with late descisions by FIA and evolving rule changes over the next few years that just wasn't a viable prospect.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
I see in the Autosport article that Shorty thinks one or two of the teams won't finish out the season (presumably HRT and Virgin). Would they then be hit with a huge fine and a lifetime ban ala USF1? If so, that would be yet another dis-incentive for any new team to take the gamble and join the F1 Circus (and with BE running things, circus is a very apt description).
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
I have quite a lot of admiration for Bernie in what he has done for F1 in terms of turning it into a global spectacle.
And incidently making a huge fortune for himself in the process.Not bad for a guy who began his business career selling seconhand motorcycle parts in Bungay.

But in the process he has turned F1 into nothing more than a circus.From being a sport it has now morphed into a money making excersise for him, and the cost to the sport has been huge.
I am a racing purist.For me racing is first and foremost a sport.Competition between the best drivers in he best cars in the world.
This is why I am so bitterly opposed to team orders,where the outcome of the race is decided by the sponsors not by the drivers abilities.
It high time that F1 rid itself of Bernie.No one man should be able to opertate as a dictator and impose his tyranical will on everthing.
Having finally got rid of his remora none other that Mad Max himself, I pray that Bernie soon see's the light and bows out gracefully.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
spotsman siad:
I have quite a lot of admiration for Bernie in what he has done for F1 in terms of turning it into a global spectacle.
And incidently making a huge fortune for himself in the process.Not bad for a guy who began his business career selling seconhand motorcycle parts in Bungay.

But in the process he has turned F1 into nothing more than a circus. From being a sport it has now morphed into a money making excersise for him, and the cost to the sport has been huge.
I am a racing purist. For me racing is first and foremost a sport. Competition between the best drivers in he best cars in the world.
This is why I am so bitterly opposed to team orders, where the outcome of the race is decided by the sponsors not by the drivers abilities.

I was agreeing with a lot of what you said, until the last bit. Team orders have existed in F1 since the 1950's! Fangio, for instance, as I'm sure you know, won at least one World Driver's title by his teammate regularly being ordered into the pits to give his car up during a race, if Fangio's car had a problem (a not uncommon practice at that time). Imagine if at Australia this year, Red Bull had called Mark Webber into the pits after Vettel broke down, and made Mark get out of his car so Vettel could take it over? That would have made Silverstone's 'Wing-gate' episode pale into insignificance.

You can't blame Bernie for team orders, surely? And I don't think team orders in themselves make the difference between whether F1 is a sport or not.

And, to get back on topic for a moment, although I would prefer it if the new teams stayed, Bernie is right in one way; I doubt if Virgin and Hispania would be terribly missed if they pulled out (other than by Lotus, as someone for them to beat).
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
Chad Stewarthill said:
And, to get back on topic for a moment, although I would prefer it if the new teams stayed, Bernie is right in one way; I doubt if Virgin and Hispania would be terribly missed if they pulled out (other than by Lotus, as someone for them to beat).
That might be so but give them a fighting chance at least.

At some point in time, it was every team's first season in Formula One.
The difference is now there is no in-season testing and limited wind tunnel testing so new teams are severely disadvantaged.

Given the same opportunities, Virgin could go on to become the next success story but with the odds stacked against them it's likely we'll never know.
 

sportsman

Sidecar racers have the biggest cojones
Contributor
I was agreeing with a lot of what you said, until the last bit. Team orders have existed in F1 since the 1950's! Fangio, for instance, as I'm sure you know, won at least one World Driver's title by his teammate regularly being ordered into the pits to give his car up during a race, if Fangio's car had a problem (a not uncommon practice at that time). Imagine if at Australia this year, Red Bull had called Mark Webber into the pits after Vettel broke down, and made Mark get out of his car so Vettel could take it over? That would have made Silverstone's 'Wing-gate' episode pale into insignificance.

You can't blame Bernie for team orders, surely? And I don't think team orders in themselves make the difference between whether F1 is a sport or not.

And, to get back on topic for a moment, although I would prefer it if the new teams stayed, Bernie is right in one way; I doubt if Virgin and Hispania would be terribly missed if they pulled out (other than by Lotus, as someone for them to beat).


No, team orders are not Bernies fault.And yes, team orders have always existed.
I honestly can't really see any way that the ban can be enforced.
But now due to sponsorship issues team orders are used to satisfy the sponsors
Sponsor liveried cars appeared in the late 60's until then the cars ran in the countries national racing colours.
Sponsorship really only became so prominent with the JPS Lotus.

The new teams have hardly been given a fair chance to be competitive.The FIA left their decision far too late, and no testing the news teams didn't have a chance to be on the pace.
If they are in the same position next season, then there might be a reason for slating them.
I think that they deserve a fair crack, and comments like this from Bernie are grossly unfair.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
brogan said: That might be so but give them a fighting chance at least.

Forgive me, I was commenting on the truism in Bernie's statement, not necessarily agreeing with the sentiment. For myself, I am in favour of the new teams being there, however slow they are at the moment. They can only improve if they are given time to, and however uncompetitive some of the current new teams may be, that is not an argument against new teams in principle.

As I have stated elsewhere before now, every team was a 'new' team once upon a time, even those that were born out of others by takeovers or buy-outs. They are in fact the life blood of the sport. If there had been no 'new' teams allowed into the sport since its beginnings, who would we be left with today? Ferrari and Mercedes? Maybe not even Ferrari? And even the current Mercedes team is hardly the same Merceds-Benz that raced in the 50's.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
No worries Brogan; no offence assumed and none taken. :thumbsup:

And sportsman,

Yes I agree to an extent about sponsorship but is it really that much pressure from sponsors that dictates team orders? I am not convinced, for example, that last Sunday's switch was due to pressure from Santander as some have suggested; I suspect that Ferrari were quite capable of deciding that one for themselves; it would appear to be in their nature.
 
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