Exactly. What's the point in sponsoring F1 when you can just pay for a spot in the commercial breaks.
BBC to axe F1 from 2013? Confirmed - F1 will be on Sky from 2012
- Thread starter Quintessentially
- Start date
- Status
Exactly. What's the point in sponsoring F1 when you can just pay for a spot in the commercial breaks.
Worth remembering this thread
...and the link to the ESPN article claiming that Vodafone got $122m worth of exposure from their $75m a year sponsorship of McLaren. Now clearly, the UK market is not the be all and end all, but if this path is followed around Europe you could easily imagine the difficult questions that are bound to be asked by folks in Newbury (Vodafone's HQ).
This is where the whole thing could collapse. Why would Vodafone not ask for a 50% reduction in its bill if 50% less viewers are going to be watching their brand every race...??
This does not add up for the teams who get a fraction of the TV revenue - lets say McLaren get 10%, the Sky deal is worth £4m a year and yet they stand to lose $37.5m a year from Vodafone?
(Warning - over simplified numbers to make a point)
...and the link to the ESPN article claiming that Vodafone got $122m worth of exposure from their $75m a year sponsorship of McLaren. Now clearly, the UK market is not the be all and end all, but if this path is followed around Europe you could easily imagine the difficult questions that are bound to be asked by folks in Newbury (Vodafone's HQ).
This is where the whole thing could collapse. Why would Vodafone not ask for a 50% reduction in its bill if 50% less viewers are going to be watching their brand every race...??
This does not add up for the teams who get a fraction of the TV revenue - lets say McLaren get 10%, the Sky deal is worth £4m a year and yet they stand to lose $37.5m a year from Vodafone?
(Warning - over simplified numbers to make a point)
Oh so now there's 'been a problem displaying comments' on Ben Gallop's blog.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2011/07/f1_coverage_to_be_shared_betwe.html#more
Yeah - the problem is that you've effectively got over 7000 complaints on it and you're trying to bury it.
This stinks to high heaven.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/sporteditors/2011/07/f1_coverage_to_be_shared_betwe.html#more
Yeah - the problem is that you've effectively got over 7000 complaints on it and you're trying to bury it.
This stinks to high heaven.
Here is my respnse from the BBC
Dear Mr Deleted
Thanks for contacting us regarding the BBC's rights to broadcast future seasons of 'Formula One'.
We understand you are unhappy that the BBC won't be showing all races in future seasons due to the sharing of broadcast rights with Sky.
We know that Formula 1 has an extremely passionate following in the UK and that some fans will be disappointed that not all races will be available exclusively live on the BBC from next season.
We are operating in a very tough financial climate and in common with all areas of the BBC, BBC Sport is having to make significant cost savings over the next few years in order to operate within the constraints of the licence fee settlement, therefore we have to make some difficult choices.
We believe this deal represents good value for money for licence fee payers. We retain live coverage of half of the race weekends and we will have extended highlights of the remaining races so we are pleased that all of the action from Formula 1 for the next seven seasons will remain on BBC television. Online coverage of the race weekends that we broadcast will remain the same, and we will carry all the news and reports from the rest of the season. Radio coverage will not change whilst the most popular races - the British Grand Prix, the Monaco Grand Prix and the final race of the season will continue to be broadcast live on BBC One.
We would like to assure you that we’ve registered your complaint on our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily for all programme makers and commissioning executives within the BBC, and also their senior management. It ensures that your points, and all other comments we receive, are made available across the BBC.
Thanks again for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints
NB This is sent from an outgoing account only which is not monitored. You cannot reply to this email address but if necessary please contact us via our webform quoting any case number we provided.
Kind Regards
BBC Audience Services
I haven't had an answer from FOTA yet
Dear Mr Deleted
Thanks for contacting us regarding the BBC's rights to broadcast future seasons of 'Formula One'.
We understand you are unhappy that the BBC won't be showing all races in future seasons due to the sharing of broadcast rights with Sky.
We know that Formula 1 has an extremely passionate following in the UK and that some fans will be disappointed that not all races will be available exclusively live on the BBC from next season.
We are operating in a very tough financial climate and in common with all areas of the BBC, BBC Sport is having to make significant cost savings over the next few years in order to operate within the constraints of the licence fee settlement, therefore we have to make some difficult choices.
We believe this deal represents good value for money for licence fee payers. We retain live coverage of half of the race weekends and we will have extended highlights of the remaining races so we are pleased that all of the action from Formula 1 for the next seven seasons will remain on BBC television. Online coverage of the race weekends that we broadcast will remain the same, and we will carry all the news and reports from the rest of the season. Radio coverage will not change whilst the most popular races - the British Grand Prix, the Monaco Grand Prix and the final race of the season will continue to be broadcast live on BBC One.
We would like to assure you that we’ve registered your complaint on our audience log. This is the internal report of audience feedback which we compile daily for all programme makers and commissioning executives within the BBC, and also their senior management. It ensures that your points, and all other comments we receive, are made available across the BBC.
Thanks again for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints
NB This is sent from an outgoing account only which is not monitored. You cannot reply to this email address but if necessary please contact us via our webform quoting any case number we provided.
Kind Regards
BBC Audience Services
I haven't had an answer from FOTA yet
RickD
Pole Sitter
Sorry, which part of my post was off topic? The reason the BBc are making these cuts is due to the massive overspend elsewhere, I think that's on topic somehow. You're disingeniously trying to blame the current government, I am simply correcting your fallacy..
Mostly the part where you made an assumption that I was a labour supporter and then went into a rant, attacking me by proxy in the process.
I'll accept your statements about being on topic, but you started off your rant in a personal, spiteful and attacking manner whilst also making judgement on my character and allegiances.
I've given you your dues, please give me mine.
Are there any mods about? Come on kids, let's keep this about the sport ffs 
Let's be honest, whatever the political background to this sorry affair, the BBC could have found all sorts of ways to find savings, as others have already suggested. But they chose to cut their F1 expenditure, they chose to renege on their original contract, they chose to bring in Sky TV as a 'partner' in a desperate bid to keep for themselves the Kudos of being able to say they still covered Formula 1.
Well, if you are listening Auntie, you have just lost any kudos you ever thought you had.
To my mind, the BBC and only the BBC are responsible for this mess.
Well, if you are listening Auntie, you have just lost any kudos you ever thought you had.
To my mind, the BBC and only the BBC are responsible for this mess.
You missed something out there. They chose not to pay the extortionate rates Bernie was demanding for the rights to screen F1. Never forget that had his rates been more reasonable, the BBC would be continuing to screen F1.
That is true Jez however the BBC have used their position as rights holder to prevent other FTA broadcaster from bidding to take on the coverage and have arranged a deal with a pay per view broadcaster in order to retain some broadcasting rights for at least the next 7 years.
We can assume that once this deal expires then all coverage will go Pay Per View with only hightlights on the beeb or other free to air broadcaster. How many sports have ever made it back from PPV once they've gone to Sky?
But the BBC had a contract to the end of 2013.
They could have simply chosen to see that out, save themselves (and us) £70 million and it would have had a good chance of being solely on C4 from 2013 onwards.
Anyway, here's something to lighten the mood: http://www.grandprix.com/columns/maurice-hamilton/race-abuse.html
To clarify a few points...
1) The BBC and Channel 4 were the ONLY free to air broadcasters who bid for the rights to show formula 1.
2) The BBC gave Bernie the choice, they either stopped broadcasting at the end of this season or the Sky deal was what would go forward.
3) Channel 4 were unable to commit the resources required until the 2013 season, which would have meant NO coverage next year at all if they had won.
Having clarified all that this really does come down to one thing, the costs of any broadcaster in showing F1 live on TV. The BBC is known within the sport as the pinacle of the broadcasting world in terms of their coverage and involvment with the participants. How they achieve this is by sending more people to every race than any other broadcaster (including FOM who have to provide the TV feeds) as well as picking the best team they can to go. This means that the main cost they have is not the rights, but the broadcasting itself, but being the BBC they have said they will not compromise on the quality of broadcasting just to retain the rights (and to a certain extent I am glad they did, else we would be back in the days of one man at trackside with one camera and a mic doing the whole job).
On the whole I don't like the idea of it going to Sky as a fan, but as a business man I can see the logic and reasoning behind the decision and think it may have been the best compromise that could be found in time to save coverage for next year.
There are some things that are being said that really do need to be shot down though. The argument of "look at what Sky has done for Premiership Football, they can do that for F1" holds no water with me. I will agree that domestic football in this country was not the best in the world before Sky started to pump some money into the sport, but all it has managed is to take a sport which was financially wobbly at best before its involvement and turn it into a multi-billion pound industry with debt levels at such a high rate that no other endeavour would ever be able to maintain. For any one club to have a level of outgoings where the wage bill for players alone accounts for over 90% of the income is rediculous, but when you take football as a whole now (not just the top league but all the lower professional leagues who are competing to get to the lofty heights of being broadcast on sky) then their debt level is over 200% of their income level and this is increasing at an exponential rate. Sky may have provided the driving force for club football in England to become some of the best in the world, but they have also guaranteed its long term death throws in how they have encouraged these teams to increase spending.
Now if you apply that model to F1, if the money being provided to teams for TV rights is increased to a level where they will fight to be there, then you will have those teams involved in the lower formulas trying to make the step up, they will take on debt to get into the select club that gets money from Sky, and when they can't compete they will fold. Motorsport is not like Football, when you no longer race in F1 and make a loss trying there isn't a way to fall back, rebuild and try again later, if you fail your finances you are gone, hence I can see a killing of the lower formula making it the exclusive playgrounds of those teams already associated to an F1 team (see Team Air Asia and Team Lotus).
Doom and gloom I know, but if this transition is not handled correctly within the sport then it could have wide reaching and disasterous effects through motorsport as a whole
1) The BBC and Channel 4 were the ONLY free to air broadcasters who bid for the rights to show formula 1.
2) The BBC gave Bernie the choice, they either stopped broadcasting at the end of this season or the Sky deal was what would go forward.
3) Channel 4 were unable to commit the resources required until the 2013 season, which would have meant NO coverage next year at all if they had won.
Having clarified all that this really does come down to one thing, the costs of any broadcaster in showing F1 live on TV. The BBC is known within the sport as the pinacle of the broadcasting world in terms of their coverage and involvment with the participants. How they achieve this is by sending more people to every race than any other broadcaster (including FOM who have to provide the TV feeds) as well as picking the best team they can to go. This means that the main cost they have is not the rights, but the broadcasting itself, but being the BBC they have said they will not compromise on the quality of broadcasting just to retain the rights (and to a certain extent I am glad they did, else we would be back in the days of one man at trackside with one camera and a mic doing the whole job).
On the whole I don't like the idea of it going to Sky as a fan, but as a business man I can see the logic and reasoning behind the decision and think it may have been the best compromise that could be found in time to save coverage for next year.
There are some things that are being said that really do need to be shot down though. The argument of "look at what Sky has done for Premiership Football, they can do that for F1" holds no water with me. I will agree that domestic football in this country was not the best in the world before Sky started to pump some money into the sport, but all it has managed is to take a sport which was financially wobbly at best before its involvement and turn it into a multi-billion pound industry with debt levels at such a high rate that no other endeavour would ever be able to maintain. For any one club to have a level of outgoings where the wage bill for players alone accounts for over 90% of the income is rediculous, but when you take football as a whole now (not just the top league but all the lower professional leagues who are competing to get to the lofty heights of being broadcast on sky) then their debt level is over 200% of their income level and this is increasing at an exponential rate. Sky may have provided the driving force for club football in England to become some of the best in the world, but they have also guaranteed its long term death throws in how they have encouraged these teams to increase spending.
Now if you apply that model to F1, if the money being provided to teams for TV rights is increased to a level where they will fight to be there, then you will have those teams involved in the lower formulas trying to make the step up, they will take on debt to get into the select club that gets money from Sky, and when they can't compete they will fold. Motorsport is not like Football, when you no longer race in F1 and make a loss trying there isn't a way to fall back, rebuild and try again later, if you fail your finances you are gone, hence I can see a killing of the lower formula making it the exclusive playgrounds of those teams already associated to an F1 team (see Team Air Asia and Team Lotus).
Doom and gloom I know, but if this transition is not handled correctly within the sport then it could have wide reaching and disasterous effects through motorsport as a whole
So it was all down to the BBC then.
Their ultimatum makes no sense.
It would have cost them £50 million to see out the contract for next year.
Instead they will now pay an extra £70 million over 6 years.
So it had nothing to do with saving money and everything to do with hanging on to whatever small bit of F1 they could, for as long as possible.
Fuckers.
Actually it makes a lot os sense when you know how Government Agencies (of which the BBC is essentially one) are funded. They are given £x for their annual budget. If they spend more they can ask for an advance on the next years budget towards the end of this year, if they don't spend it that money is taken away and their budget is likely to be cut by that much for the next year. So for the BBC to say they are spending £70mil is not accurate in the way their money works, what they are spending is £10mil of their budget on F1. In terms of the way they are funded they will be saving £30mil at least from next years budget (and if the deal had been renewed after next season, from every years budget after that). I have to deal with this type of funding a lot for work, it is a complete nightmare as you can guarantee that any government agency that has a shortfall in their spending around the February time will desperately be looking to spend that money on anything they can, the funding system needs to change so that agencies can plan long term and commit to spending cuts this year with a view to investing that money in essential works next year.
How do you think Ecclestone would have reacted had the BBC approached him with that ultimatum? Do you really think the BBC would have gone to Ecclestone and FOM and said we'll stop broadcasting F1 in 2012 unless we do this deal?
The cost of breaking a contract would surely have cost a fortune. There is no way that someone as shrewd as Ecclestone would have allowed the BBC to get away with that. As has been said before, the BBC came to Ecclestone with the offer of co-hosting with Sky due to the need to cut back finacially. I haven't seen it written anywhere that they issued any such ultimatum. Channel 4 were preparing a bid however it would seem that they were offered the opportunity to take up the deal from 2012 onwards or the BBC plan would go forward. Since it would seem that C4 were preparing to bid from 2013 and had not planned / prepared for a 2012 start there is no way they could take up the option.
Had Ecclestone turned down the BBC offer they would have been faced with no choice but to continue to broadcast until the end of the 2012 season. That had already been budgeted for by the BBC as written in the Febuary 2011 document, managing BBC sports rights that I posted some posts back.
The cost of breaking a contract would surely have cost a fortune. There is no way that someone as shrewd as Ecclestone would have allowed the BBC to get away with that. As has been said before, the BBC came to Ecclestone with the offer of co-hosting with Sky due to the need to cut back finacially. I haven't seen it written anywhere that they issued any such ultimatum. Channel 4 were preparing a bid however it would seem that they were offered the opportunity to take up the deal from 2012 onwards or the BBC plan would go forward. Since it would seem that C4 were preparing to bid from 2013 and had not planned / prepared for a 2012 start there is no way they could take up the option.
Had Ecclestone turned down the BBC offer they would have been faced with no choice but to continue to broadcast until the end of the 2012 season. That had already been budgeted for by the BBC as written in the Febuary 2011 document, managing BBC sports rights that I posted some posts back.
Yes, if the BBC had not come to another deal they would have been stuck with paying for the broadcast rights for F1 for 2012 and then a new deal going forward, but unfortunately that doesn't mean they couldn't have cut the costs next year by basically not broadcasting, or maybe even doing a 60 minute highlight package. What they will have said to Bernie is "we cannot afford to carry on the way we are", and as a large number of countries also rely on the BBC feed to provide their pictures and commentary this will have left him with very few options. You have to remember that while the BBC currently own the exclusive rights to broadcast F1 in the UK and there are probably clauses about the amount of coverage they must commit to, there is very little that can be done if they decided to turn up with Jeremy Clarkson, a cheap SD camera and a mic and do a budget job of it...
- Status
Similar threads
