Audi to potentially join F1 in 2016 - is there light at the end of the tunnel for the sport?

[mjo]

Eddie Jordan has just said that Ross Brawn would return to F1 in 2017 with VW-Audi. Thoughts?

 

[cider_and_toast]

Eddie Jordan is even more wrong than usual?

 

[Mephistopheles]

So now it is the VW group itself considering an F1 entry..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30336569

 

[Il_leone]

cider_and_toast

EJ
- Was not wrong when he said Mercedes wanted Schumacher when they did not want Button
- Was not wrong when he said Lewis would join Mercedes
- Was not wrong that Alonso would need to leave Ferrari and join Mclaren
- Was not wrong when he quoted Hulkenberg had signed for Force India when everyone was expecting him to go to Lotus

He does have close sources in the paddock and it would not surprise if VW hired Ross Brawn given his track record

On another note I see an opening for Nico Hulkenberg given he just signed up to drive for Porsche and will be pushing to get a drive with them if they enter F1 as they will probably want 1 German driver and he's in a good position to negotiate on that front

 

[Grizzly]

We all saw this coming despite the denial a few months back, but (with tongue in cheek) why consign yourself to second at best? bbc - "...and that if it did enter F1 it would be with its own team based in Germany"

Purchase of the Toyota Cologne facility??? Another billion dollar scheme that never quite gets there??

Incidentally, the spend vs calculated marketing value for Merc's 2014 F1 campaign vs VAG's sports car & DTM campaign are alarming, but perhaps not entirely surprising.

 

[Il_leone]

not surprised Audi want a crack seeing Mercedes are their rivals who they've trounced in DTM lately but are still falling behind in commercial value

 

[F1Yorkshire]

I thought Force India has just secured the use of the Toyota windtunnel.

Would VW start from scratch or take over an existing team? Recent history shows that starting with a clean slate isn't the best approach to joining F1

 

[Grizzly]

They have, but that's not much of an obstacle I wouldn't think.

Purchasing the Toyota factory (maybe even a recent former teams intellectual property) is kinda in the middle though isn't it....

 

[Il_leone]

F1Yorkshire The windtunnel that Toyota had is being used by Ferrari

Your suggestion about Force India has got me thinking seeing Hulkenberg has signed to drive for Porsche at Le Mans and no doubt want to put himself in the frame should Audi enter F1 and will want 1 German driver

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What about buying at Caterham ? or Marussia ?

 

[F1Yorkshire]

The last time a completely new entity joined F1 before the 3 recent minnows I believe was in fact Toyota. All other new constructors since then including the highly successful Red Bull and Mercedes teams were based on an existing set-up.

Before Toyota the last completely new team to enter F1 and win a race was Stewart which eventually became Red Bull.

Maybe VW's best chance will be buying Force India and building the team from there.

 

[cider_and_toast]

I hate the fact that F1 teams have become franchises that are sold on to the next highest bidder in order to become someone elses play thing.

Since the loss of Brabham, Lotus, Minardi, Tyrrell, Ligier and Arrows in the 90's and early 00's, it reduced the number of established teams on the grid by around 50 percent.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

On the other hand because of teams being able to be bought and sold it means Tyrrell and Minardi still exist both of whom have gone on to achieve great success in later guises.

 

[Il_leone]

Toyota's problem was they went in with a grand plan in F1 but they tried to do it the Japanese corporate way which does not fit the pace of F1 development and it was totally different to how they build their road cars

Also they went through too many driver changes - What were they expecting in their debut season and sacking Salo and McNish who both did decent jobs but you're competing against Ferrari, Mclaren, Renault and Williams and there is only 6 point scoring positions available

Then someone decided it was a good idea to sign Schumacher (but the wrong one) on the basis he is German with a famous name at extortionate salary
----------------------------------------------

Audi should realise it took Mercedes 5 years to get it right so they should think about that before abandoning hastily like BMW did because things were not going to plan.

Audi should look at also buying Sauber maybe who have great windtunnel facilities at Hinwil

 

[Bill Boddy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30336569

"But any entry would depend on management changes at VW or F1."

Leave the VW management alone.

 

[cider_and_toast]

On the other hand because of teams being able to be bought and sold it means Tyrrell and Minardi still exist both of whom have gone on to achieve great success in later guises.

But which sounds better? Jenson Button taking the first wolrd title for the legendary Tyrrell team since Jackie Stewart in 2009 or for Brawn who scraped together enough money to keep the team going in a management buy out from Honda before flogging it at the end of the season to Mercedes? And Finally after years of trying Sebastian Vettel takes a first ever win for Minardi or Sebastian Vettel takes the first win for Red Bull's junior team Toro Rosso ??

Too many teams who had a legacy in F1 lost it due to numerous buy outs.

 

[F1Yorkshire]

Toro Rosso's win was done with a lot of the original Minardi team members, I bet it meant a hell of a lot to them considering the many years they spent at the back of the grid. It's the people in F1 that makes the sport.

Take Force India for example, they are still in the original factory from the Jordan days, how many of the same staff do you think are still there? Their financial future is looking a little bleak but I'm sure they would love a chance to try compete with the front end of the grid if a company like VW took them over.

 

[cider_and_toast]

The people at the factory may do but what about the people who follow the teams? The same principle applies to the fans of Wimbledon FC who watched their team move 70 miles away and become MK Dons or the fans of London Wasps who saw their team drop the London part of the name and then move all the way up the M40 to Coventry. Both clubs told their fans to stop complaining as it was for the good of the club. There are other examples such as Cardiff FC switching to red shirts or Hull FC's attempt to change names.

There is no substitute for traddition. Of course teams need to have investment and move with the times but in the Toro Rosso example, it doesn't matter if everyone from the tea lady up was ex-Minardi staff it will still say it was a debut win for Toro Rosso. If VW start their own team, establish their own legacy and create their own place in the sport that's an achievement, if they just become yet another owner of the old Jordan F1 team then they are little better than Midland or Spyker. It's like the medieval axe that's had five new heads and six new handles.

 

[Mephistopheles]

You forgot Bristol RFC buying out London Scottish so that they could remain in the first division cider_and_toast

 

[Bill Boddy]

Do you mean this cider_and_toast?

 

[F1Yorkshire]

So mercedes and brawn haven't achieved anything? Anyway my point still stands. If VW want any chance of success in the sport then according to recent history their best best is to build upon someone else's existing infrastructure.
There are only 2 teams on the grid who are the same team that they started as. Its just the way of modern F1.