Are the current F1 rules anti-racing?

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johnnoble1990

Guest
The commentary team declared when Lewis went down the inside of Jenson at Turkey that "he was lucky he didn't just turn in there", they said it again when Michael was overtaken by him today. In both cases if the driver turned in, it would probably end their race and Lewis would get a penalty. Instead, we got two overtaking moves which were on both occasions applauded.

Later in todays race in Monaco, Lewis dives down the inside of Massa who then does turn in on him, later leading to a DNF and a penalty to Lewis. Then similarly later in the race, Lewis gets side by side with Pastor, with Maldonado taking the racing line, sending Lewis into a bollard and eventually into Pastor.

I think the examples in the first paragraph is examples of racing and the second paragraph is anti-racing, yet it seems that the rules favour the second type, where a driver is penalised for having a go if the defending driver turns in or leaves no room.

I feel that the rules that encourage the best racing is if you head into a corner on the outside you must stick to the outside and if you go in on the inside you should stay to the inside and not go wide into the other driver. A penalty should be given if either driver breaks from their chosen line heading into a corner.

Looking at the incidences today, both PDR and Lewis seemed to take the inside first, before the defending driver took the inside line in the braking zone. By which point PDR and Lewis are committed, while Jaime and Massa were not. Only Jaime and Massa could avoid the accident in the present, while PDR and Lewis could only avoid the accident by not overtaking.

We saw a perfect example of what i want to see when Michael Schumacher went up the inside of Lewis and Lewis up the inside of Michael. Both gave room and those overtakes were considered fair and again applauded. Had they turned in, the overtaker would get a penalty and the defender would most likely be out of the race.

What does everyone think of this? Should the rules be changed to encourage overtaking?
 

Sarinaide

Banned
Not at the expense where it can cost another driver his race, Massa had the driving line and was ahead, Lewis cut the curb, that is not racing.

I prefer duels into breaking points where the one that gets it wrong, costs his race only not another driver, or good drives into DRS zones. There have been plenty good moves that have not been risky at all.
 
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johnnoble1990

Guest
I see that move on Massa as Massa taking the driving line and Lewis being "forced" to cut the curb. I agree that is not racing, but why is the blame with Lewis when Michael does the same move on him without him putting Michael over the curb. I'm pretty sure what i suggested would result in less DNFs, not more. If everyone sticks to a line in the braking zone, then there will be no collision because everyone knows where they are.
 

Sarinaide

Banned
Shanghai was a great exhibition of passing, Turkey had its moments but I think seeing a small window when you know a mistake will not only take you but the other racer out, that is just stupid and reckless.

There was nothing for Lewis in either move just collisions, inside line into the hairpin is not the proper line neither is hanging inside the curb for the Maldanodo incident, I blame it more on the fact that Monaco is a pathetic race.
 

Galahad

Not a Moderator
Valued Member
I think the problem is that the car in front simply doesn't know that the guy behind is making a move at all - we are often told how poor rear and side visibility is. I really do not think Massa and Maldonado 'turned in' on him - he just hadn't got far enough alongside to lay claim to the corner.
 
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johnnoble1990

Guest
Yeah the track can be blamed for the lack of overtaking, but down into the hairpin Lewis could have made the overtake stick had Massa not turned in and the same for Maldonado's. The reason there was nothing in it for him is because they both did turn in.

Which leads me to the initial question. Should drivers be allowed to take a racing line when a driver is about to take the inside line? I think we've reviewed the incidences enough.
 

Slyboogy

World Champion
Contributor
I think the problem is that the car in front simply doesn't know that the guy behind is making a move at all - we are often told how poor rear and side visibility is. I really do not think Massa and Maldonado 'turned in' on him - he just hadn't got far enough alongside to lay claim to the corner.

I agree, and we have heard in the commentray many times, because the driver infront doesn't know much what's going behind, it's the attacker that should be the one taking avoiding action.

As for Schumacher on the curb, he took it like an apex, unlike di Resta abd Hamilton who took a lot of the curb and a bit more to get their car there.

Are the current rules in F1 anti-racing? Well I remember Martin Brundle mentioning this season that the drivers told the FIA/stewards to be a bit more stricter.
 
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johnnoble1990

Guest
I think the problem is that the car in front simply doesn't know that the guy behind is making a move at all - we are often told how poor rear and side visibility is. I really do not think Massa and Maldonado 'turned in' on him - he just hadn't got far enough alongside to lay claim to the corner.

If you look at the highlight of the Massa one, then if he didn't know he was there then he took a very bizarre line.
 

Brogan

🦶 Leg end
Staff Member
As far as I am aware, the current 'rule' is if the front wheel is at least half way along side the car in front, then it's a legitimate attempt.

From what I saw today, Lewis can't claim that he had position on Felipe or Pastor, they were both at best optimistic moves.

The only problem is this 'rule' isn't applied evenly between races, or even in the same race.
That though is an ongoing issue with any stewarding decisions.

As far as I'm concerned, di Resta, Hamilton, Kobayashi, Schumacher and Alguersuari all collided with drivers unnecessarily today. Two penalties have already been awarded and I expect more will be soon.
Schumacher's incident was at the first corner so I suspect he will get away with that.
 

RevMaxPower

Banned
Whoever really IS in charge of F1 these days needs to stop shooting in the dark and thrashing about trying 'this and that' to improve the RACING but stand back, take a fresh look and if necessary, start over. The whole thing is getting out of hand and looking more amateurish by the month. SOMEBODY needs to get a grip...
 
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johnnoble1990

Guest
I have a screen shot of Massa clearly taking a line that wasn't the racing line. So he obviously knew Lewis was there and was trying to squeeze him, which he succesfully did leading to a real mess.

How can i post a picture?
 
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johnnoble1990

Guest
I think you are forgetting Massa had two cars infront of him that he had to avoid :thumbsup:

Hmm...i want to say that is clutching at straws but i guess you could say the same for me. If i could post this screenshot it is as plain as possible that Massa has seen Lewis and is trying to block him in the braking zone.
 
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johnnoble1990

Guest
Whoever really IS in charge of F1 these days needs to stop shooting in the dark and thrashing about trying 'this and that' to improve the RACING but stand back, take a fresh look and if necessary, start over. The whole thing is getting out of hand and looking more amateurish by the month. SOMEBODY needs to get a grip...

Couldn't agree more.
 
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johnnoble1990

Guest
If you go to the BBC website and pause the highlights a little bit after 4:26 as they are going into the corner it is obvious that Lewis is spotted early by Massa and he decides to turn in to block him.
 
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johnnoble1990

Guest
It is not specified in any FIA regulations which is "the racing line".
Defensive racing lines are allowed and are part of a racing drivers skill.

Agreed, but should drivers cut across other drivers in the braking zone. I see a defensive driving line as committing to the inside, not driving from outside to the inside (normal racing line) and crashing. Where is skill in that. It is like driving as if no ones there.
 

RevMaxPower

Banned
It is not specified in any FIA regulations which is "the racing line".
Defensive racing lines are allowed and are part of a racing drivers skill.

I would sincerely hope distinct racing lines are not regulated, Sportsman - for if it was a rule we'd see even MORE processions... As it is I've seen better SLOT racing than todays Grand Prix!
 
J

johnnoble1990

Guest
I'll put it up in a second then we can analyse it. It'll be after my dinner. :s
 
J

johnnoble1990

Guest
 
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