Poll Another stupid penalty - Messing up the Monaco Grid?

Is the grid penalty for Schumacher being applied to Monaco the most appropriate penalty?

  • Yes it is the most appropriate penalty

    Votes: 21 52.5%
  • No he should be fined instead

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • No he should be docked championship points

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No it was just a racing incident

    Votes: 18 45.0%
  • No another penalty which does not affect the Monaco race would be more appropriate

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    40

P1

Podium Finisher
After my rant yesterday on the FIA and its race stewards messing up the Spanish grand prix by preventing the fastest driver from competing for the win, we now have another one.

Schumacher made a racing mistake today which ruined his race. Yes he was at fault, so perhaps he should have been fined, or docked Championship points.

However they hAve decided to instead issue a grid penalty for Monaco. So now we have another top runner who wil start in the wrong place and manipulate the result of yet another race.

Who thinks this is the appropriate penalty?

It's like they don't like the top competitors being in the race so they can have more random wins.
 

P1

Podium Finisher
His poor driving caused the collision which itself caused the retirement of a competitor, he couldn't be given a drive through so 5 places it is.

So you don't believe that races should start with drivers in the order of their speed?

You believe that the starting order should be a function of both speed and any mistakes they made on their previous race. That's not racing in my opinion. That's a soap opera.
 

P1

Podium Finisher
There have to be rules.

Yes and rules should be designed to create punishments which don't distort the race. What Schumacher did today ahold not affect Monaco. There are other forms of penalty.

I am not saying ignore the rules, I Am saying that the penalty is inappropriate, and there are other penalties which can be applied which don't distort the grid.
 

gethinceri

Lance Stroll Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan.
Contributor
Had he not destroyed his own vehicle yet been found guilty of "causing an avoidable incident" he'd have received a drive through. What other penalty would make sense, a fine? It would need to be in the several tens of thousands to have any effect? Docked points? He's only got 2!!!!!!
Grid penalty is the only option unless there's no penalty at all.
 

P1

Podium Finisher
You can dock 20 points and leave his total negative. You could fine him up to half a million euros.
 

Josh

Champion Elect
So you're saying fining someone for up to half a million euros is a better penalty for messing up someone's race than getting your own race messed up?

Errr, right.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
The Stewards are restricted to a prescribed list of penalties (see below) Historically, the docking of points usually accompanies disqualification from the event in which the transgression occured.

Extremely rare occurances outside of that norm include the wiping out of McLaren's WCC points in 2007 because of the spying affair. I'm personally not aware of "points docking" being applied to a driver other than in relation to the specific race event in question.

[BOX=100] 16.3 The stewards may impose any one of the penalties below on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive‐through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re‐join the race without
stopping.
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least
ten seconds and then re‐join the race.
If either of the two penalties above are imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a
race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time
of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).
c) A time penalty.
d) A reprimand.
If any of the four penalties above are imposed they shall not be subject to appeal.
e) A drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
f) Exclusion from the results.
g) Suspension from the driver’s next Event.
 

Chad Stewarthill

Champion Elect
Contributor
Lewis Hamilton was sent from the front to the back of the grid, not because of reckless or dangerous driving, but because his team made a small mistake fuelling his car.

So a five place grid drop for a multiple champion running into the back of another, ending that driver's race, I would say is quite lenient.
One could say that Schumacher is fortunate not to be starting from the back row at Monaco.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
Chad Stewarthill Yes indeed, and a perfect illustration of something I was trying to say in another thread with regard to Stewards making a rod for their own backs by imposing excessively severe penalties. That applies to making lenient and inappropriate penalties as well. Each of their decisions set precedents that may later be called upon to use in future judgements or in appeals. Clearly there is still a need for some training for these people.

Edit. By the way I voted "appropriate" in this case.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Chad--Lewis' team subsequently lied to the stewards (aka cheating).
Schumacher's move was stupidity (trusting Senna), and his elimination from the race was one form of punishment already.
 

Fenderman

Rooters Reporter
siffert_fan That McLaren "lied" to the Stewards is an assumption being made by people who believe that underfuelling Lewis's car was intentional. Whilst I think we can fairly accuse some McLaren personnel of being inept and mismanaging the situation I, personally, cannot accuse them of lying. The fact that the Stewards of the meeting and the FIA are not taking McLaren to task for lying says that neither do they accuse them of that offense. The penalty meted out to them was on the basis that they (FIA) do not think that a mistake by the fueller was sufficient reason to excuse the offense. In other words they have been penalised for making "an avoidable mistake". Any other interpretation is speculation and is not supported by the official report of the Stewards decision.
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
Bro-
My understanding of the concept of force majeure is inadvertant mechanical/electrical problems that bring about the stopping of the car by themselves. Lewis was TOLD to stop, he was not brought to a halt by a mechanical or electrical malfunction. Obviously McLaren knew this was the case, as they had ordered the halt, yet they claimed force majeure. How isn't that lying? (and yes, I am really confused about this).
 

siffert_fan

Too old to watch the Asian races live.
Contributor
At this point in the season, I would also say that F1 is becoming a stewarding "farce de jour".
 

Dario Resta

Podium Finisher
Well Schumacher will have to start from P6 due to this decision, whether you agree or not
I think that prediction is about as reliable as your weather predictions......

Schumacher made a bad mistake, but Senna wasn't entirely blameless either, as he didn't seeem to know which way to go. I confidently predict Schumacher will start 10th at Monaco, but he is due a bit of luck, so he'll finish 4th (or screw up and be one of the retirements.......).

I also predict Schuey will retire at the end of the season. Yes, I know that will come as no surprise and I'm not the first with that view.

As I have my crystal ball on the go, he'll win at Spa.

He should also man up, suck it in, and apologise to Senna for his comments.
 
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