RayInTorontoCanada
Banned
Been meaning to write about the Ferrari team mate situation and Alonso's, broadcasters' and fans' expectations if/when Fernando is directly behind Felipe in a Grand Prix. So, I figured today would be the day because of some commentary by Brundle during the telecast and some of the fans comments on CTA, like:
Notwithstanding Felipe being generally the slower driver overall in this pairing, the fact of the matter is that today Alonso himself publicly admitted that he wasn't fast enough on the tyres during the first two stints. I don't get BBC "Forum" but this from Vortex:
Regardless, this is more about over-all "racing" philosophy and Alonso's, broadcasters' and his fans' overall expectations as opposed to one event in particular.
What is to be expected when Alonso comes up behind Massa in a "race"?
On the one hand, they (including Brundle on the BBC) would argue that Massa's not as fast and, so, should move over when Alonso comes up behind him so as not to "slow Nando up" and so "Nando can get more points", etc...
On the other hand, if Felipe's always going to be behind at the end of a stint, he's always going to get second (usually the less optimal) call at the pits.
You can't have it both ways.
You can't have Massa subjugated and then judge him like a driver in another more 'equal' pairing.
Either let him "race" (and let Alonso finish where he may) ... Or don't judge him like you would Button v Hamilton or Rosberg v Schumacher or Webber v Vettel.
It wouldn't be a fair comparison.
Massa visibly and notably has moved over or left the door wide open for Alonso at Australia, Hungary and Japan...and provided a tow for Alonso down the front straight at Monza during qualifying. He also entered the meeting at Korea this weekend without the new Front Wing upgrade which Alonso ran.
Imagine the uproar with the press had Webber been Alonso's team mate and not also gotten use of the new development?
Massa has now out-qualified Nando for the 4th time (all over the last 6 meetings) this year. Not a good record...but not a bad trend either. Massa's only hope of a decent F1 career after his Ferrari contract is out is to qualify within 1 to 1-and-a-half 10ths of Alonso - on average - and occasionally beat him in races. That would be a good achievement for someone benchmarked against 'One Of The Top 3 Drivers On The Grid', etc.
But if Alonso's and his fan's expectation is that Massa is to simply move over and "stop holding him up", then how is Massa to be judged by other Team Principals for future employment?
In addition, philosophically speaking, why should Alonso have a "free pass" with his team mate when the likes of a Hamilton has to fight like a Dog with Button at places like China, Canada, Hungary and Italy whilst, at the same time, Webber does Vettel no favours of any kind whatsoever.
Why should Alonso have it so easy?
Lastly, what would Alonso do in the case where a Webber or a Button or, heck, even a Hamilton or a Vettel was his teammate in 2010 or 2011?
I could argue that Alonso's points haul would be actually worse for 2010 and for 2011 had one of these other four - as opposed to Massa - been his team mate.
I have tried to write a balanced thread topic...and I'd love to know what CTA members think of this situation.
Regards,
Ray
I like to see team mates allowed to race each other, but if Massa hadn't held up Alonso that much Alonso might have been fighting for a podium and Massa would likely have finished in the same position.
...it did cost Ferrari dearly. Alonso was clearly a lot faster. If he wasn't held up by Massa in the first stints, he would have been further ahead and probably about halfway in the race somewhere in between the Hamilton-Webber-Button scrabble instead of catching it at the end. He did have the pace to follow them, while Massa clearly hadn't.
Presuming there was no Team orders, Then it is also Alonso's responsibility to get past Massa. Perhaps a little unfortunate to be behind Massa when Massa was within 1sec of another in the DRS zone.
But yeah, looking at the pace in his final stint. Alonso was really hindered and perhaps could of even been second. And ,more questions about Massas race pace, and weather he is good enough for Ferrari.
Notwithstanding Felipe being generally the slower driver overall in this pairing, the fact of the matter is that today Alonso himself publicly admitted that he wasn't fast enough on the tyres during the first two stints. I don't get BBC "Forum" but this from Vortex:
Yup, on the forum when asked about the subject Alonso said that Massa wasn’t holding him up on the first two tyre stints, this looks the case once they cleared Rosberg as Massa then pulled away from Alonso. Once they were on the third sets Alonso was then the quicker of the two, he said he didn’t know why but they would look into it.
Regardless, this is more about over-all "racing" philosophy and Alonso's, broadcasters' and his fans' overall expectations as opposed to one event in particular.
What is to be expected when Alonso comes up behind Massa in a "race"?
On the one hand, they (including Brundle on the BBC) would argue that Massa's not as fast and, so, should move over when Alonso comes up behind him so as not to "slow Nando up" and so "Nando can get more points", etc...
On the other hand, if Felipe's always going to be behind at the end of a stint, he's always going to get second (usually the less optimal) call at the pits.
You can't have it both ways.
You can't have Massa subjugated and then judge him like a driver in another more 'equal' pairing.
Either let him "race" (and let Alonso finish where he may) ... Or don't judge him like you would Button v Hamilton or Rosberg v Schumacher or Webber v Vettel.
It wouldn't be a fair comparison.
Massa visibly and notably has moved over or left the door wide open for Alonso at Australia, Hungary and Japan...and provided a tow for Alonso down the front straight at Monza during qualifying. He also entered the meeting at Korea this weekend without the new Front Wing upgrade which Alonso ran.
Imagine the uproar with the press had Webber been Alonso's team mate and not also gotten use of the new development?
Massa has now out-qualified Nando for the 4th time (all over the last 6 meetings) this year. Not a good record...but not a bad trend either. Massa's only hope of a decent F1 career after his Ferrari contract is out is to qualify within 1 to 1-and-a-half 10ths of Alonso - on average - and occasionally beat him in races. That would be a good achievement for someone benchmarked against 'One Of The Top 3 Drivers On The Grid', etc.
But if Alonso's and his fan's expectation is that Massa is to simply move over and "stop holding him up", then how is Massa to be judged by other Team Principals for future employment?
In addition, philosophically speaking, why should Alonso have a "free pass" with his team mate when the likes of a Hamilton has to fight like a Dog with Button at places like China, Canada, Hungary and Italy whilst, at the same time, Webber does Vettel no favours of any kind whatsoever.
Why should Alonso have it so easy?
Lastly, what would Alonso do in the case where a Webber or a Button or, heck, even a Hamilton or a Vettel was his teammate in 2010 or 2011?
I could argue that Alonso's points haul would be actually worse for 2010 and for 2011 had one of these other four - as opposed to Massa - been his team mate.
I have tried to write a balanced thread topic...and I'd love to know what CTA members think of this situation.
Regards,
Ray