[hilite:60bhe1pq]Deliberate spamming and articles designed to inflame and cause dischord may be subject to moderation and/or removal.
Criticism of drivers/teams is of course permitted but please try and avoid the usual invective that pervades so many forums regarding certain drivers and teams.[/hilite:60bhe1pq]
If you continue here as you left off on 606 then I suspect you won't get much response to your posts.
For those of us who want to discuss this thread, here's my take on it.
Renault may well win their appeal, we'll find out in a week on Tuesday 18th.
Alonso may get pole but looking at the fuel adjusted data, Renault still have some way to go to match the pace of the front runners.
So even if he does qualify on pole, he will be low on fuel again and will fall back into the middle of the pack after the first round of pit stops.
I suggest El Nando actually reads the forum and witnesses the level of intelligent debate first
Anyhoo - I think that Renault will probably win their appeal - My reasons, a)no-one team has been suspended recently for knowingly releasing their driver in an unsafe state (one that springs to mind - Ferrari in Singapore) b) durrrr it's in Valencia c) The return of the Schu has ramped up the excitement for this race anyway and d) the appeal isn't due to be heard until the tuesday before the race (I think - I could be wrong) so Renault will be there anyway - in this era of reduced costs, why make a team take their cars, staff and buildings (sorry, brand centres) across Europe to the circuit only to tell them to turn around.
Will Alonso win - I doubt it, the Renault just isn't quick enough - even with a hyper light strategy in Hungary the best they could have was a top 5 finish IMHO and Valencia, on last year's evidence just isn't an overtaking circuit, although KERS might well make a difference in places - shame the Renault's don't have it.
I'm not so sure Renault will win their appeal.
I think the FIA will want to be seen to be "tough on safety and tough on the causes of safety".
I think the decision to ban the drivers was harsh as they were essentially innocent victims, especially Piquet Grosjean.
Even if Alonso did know his wheel was loose, how many drivers would have just pulled over and parked it?
Taken in context you can see why the FIA took the action they did.
Would a large fine have sufficed instead though?
I see your point, however the penalty is apparently for the team not telling him the wheel wasn't attached and we've been through this before in other threads - Personally I think it's a knee jerk reaction to massa's "incident"
Yes they should be punished so they don't do it again (they do have form) but a ban.....? I'm not so sure
P.s I'm adding a long straight to the CTA GP track this week
I'd like to take issue with the general feeling that the driver shouldn't take the blame for a teams mistake. I think I disagree with this. It goes against the spirit of the word team. I feel that as a team they are all in some way responsible for each others actions. It could be said that the drivers receive too much protection from the effects of safety rulings. Did you know for example, that there is a clause in the FIA sporting regulations that states it's the responsibility of the team to pay any fine ordered against a driver.
In this day and age when drivers earn 7 figure plus sums each season you would have thought that they could have coughed up for their own fines wouldn't you.
You can argue that Alonso was let down by his team but in this case the car was allowed out of the pits in an unsafe condition and Alonso was behind the wheel. How would Fernando have felt if his tyre hadn't of rolled to a stop but bounced up into the crowd, stewards area or a fellow car?
I agree that the ban was a response to the events of that weekend and the week before at Brands and F1 is as equally good at being reactive to events as it is being pro-active. I also agree that the ban should stand. It would be a real shame for a sport that prides itself on its constant attempts to improve on safety if they were to back down on a safety issue. I hope that commercial pressures aren't allowed to win the day.
Personally I think a better decision for the season and fans would have been to impact the team points in some way, either a fixed number of points, or negating points won in Hungary and/or Valencia, but now they have made a decision on what penalty to apply I do not think that they should change seeing as how it has been demonstrated the team was aware of the situation.
Simply because a serious incident did not happen doesn't mean that the team behaved in an appropriate manner to avoid one.
Well no doubt the Renault appeal is now going to be influenced by Michael Schumacher's decision not to return after all.
There will be huge pressure on the FIA to allow them to race now.
As for the whole team thing, I agree to a certain extent.
All I was saying that as a driver, you can't fault Alonso for trying to nurse the car home, he did what every other driver would have done.
However, when a driver is truly innocent as Piquet was then I don't see why the punishment should extend to both drivers, although granted it is difficult to penalise a team without affecting both drivers.
One way would be to ban any constructor points for Piquet but still let him race to earn driver points.
After all, it's not as if he would actually get any
I've updated the poll on the home page so now you can vote on whether Renault will win their appeal or not.
I'm with CAT, I hope the FIA don't change their minds. On a safety issue, they can't be seen to dither and give in to commercial pressures, else you may as well throw the last 20 years of safety measures out the window and let the teams have carte blanche.
By all means, let the Renault start the race, but no points at all and make them start at the back of the field or from the pits so they can't affect anyone else during the start.
Also, if El Nando doesn't post again, CTA will be a better place. One of the reasons I didn't bother to try to use 606 under a new username is due to posters such as that him/her.