Alonso Interview On Hamilton And Vettel

[Kewee]

Fiat-
-first you say the Toro Rosso was "rather good", then go on about Hamilton showing he could win "without the best machinery". In my book, "rather good" can NEVER equate to being "the best machinery", so obviously Vettel can win in machinery that isn't the best.

An awful lot went Vettel's way at Monza. The form book was turned on its head for a variety of reasons which contributed to Vettel gaining pole. The conditions on race day were so appalling once he made a decent start and got out front, no one was able to get close enough in the spray to challenge him. He still had to drive a brilliant race in very wet conditions to win of course, but to be honest whoever made the first corner in the lead on that day was going to win providing they stayed on the track. He's a very good wet weather driver but that doesn't alter the fact that he's yet to prove he can win in the second or third best car. Some can, including a couple of the current drivers, some can't, the jury's still out on this point regarding Vettel.

 

[siffert_fan]

Kewee
It is a long-acknowledged fact of Formula 1 that rain is the great equalizer, allowing the driver to out-perform his car in ways that cannnot be accomplished in more clement conditions. Vettell massively outperformed his car that weekend.

In 2008, TR was only 6th in the WCC, meaning that 10 drivers on the grid had better cars than Vettel did (yes, TR even finshed behind such powerhouses as Sauber and Toyota). To my knowledge, no other driver on the grid today ever scored a win in the 6th-best car. Plus the conditions were the same for all, and the attrition of the front runners wasn't high. Alonso, Hamilton and Kubica were all in it at the finish. Give the man his due.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

How can you say that the finishing position of a car over an 18 race championship is an exact indication of the pecking order of a car on a single weekend? At the very worst, Vettel was in the second fastest car that weekend.

Also, rain is not just an equaliser for drivers. Different cars perform well in different circumstances. Look at Force India in 2009 at Spa and Monza. The car wasn't out in front because of incredible driver performances. It was there because they had a very good car in low downforce scenarios, arguably the best. Was thier form on these two weekends indicative of FI's season? No. Is Fisichella a demi-god for nearly finishing on the top of the podium at Spa? No

OK, nobody expected the TR to be so good that weekend but, as it happens, it was. Sebastian did, that weekend, what any team would expect a good driver to do. He had a unique opportunity whereby he had the best car of the weekend, and he made the best use of it by sticking it on pole and winning the race. The question should not be "How did Vettel do such an amazing thing?", it should be "Why didn't Bordais qualify in second and why didn't he finish higher in the race?".

 

[siffert_fan]

The logical extention of your statement is that the winning car on any given weekend is the best car. Therefore, you would have to say that nobody has ever won in an inferior car.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Nope. I didn't mean anything other than what I stated and I really don't like people putting words in my mouth.

To clarify further, Kimi won at Spa in 2009 despite the Force India being the best car on the day. There were two reasons for this: the first being that he was able to get past Fisi with the advantage of KERS on the restart; the second being that he was a better driver.

The race that Vettel won in Monza was won because Vettel took full advantage of his opportunity by applying hs skills and talent. However, Vettel did not create that isolated opportunity by simply being a much better driver than everyone else, the opportunity was gifted to him by circumstances.

To tie these points together - Vettel probably would have beaten Kimi at Spa in the 2009 FI and would probably have won at Monza in it, the following weekend, too.

 

[teabagyokel]

To sum it up: The McLaren was the best car in the wet at Monza in 2008. Hamilton screwed up in qualifying, and Vettel beat Kovalainen because he was a better driver.

 

[Speshal]

Sorry to drag this back on topic from 2008

Regardless of where I stand on Fernando's comments, some people* moan that drivers are mindless corporate drones that only speak in team/company soundbites and when one gives his opinion after a direct question it gets dissected to the nth degree by the very same people* - Makes me chuckle some times.

*none of you obviously

 

[ExtremeNinja]

To sum it up: The McLaren was the best car in the wet at Monza in 2008. Hamilton screwed up in qualifying, and Vettel beat Kovalainen because he was a better driver.

I think that pretty much covers it. We'll chuck in Bordais too, who Vettel beat in the same equipment. Reasons for this being: Seb Bordais crying a lot and steaming up his glasses; only qualifying in 4th because he was never as good as Vettel; and screwing his race by stalling on the grid.

Despite the stuff up in qualli, Hamilton's drive back through the field was epic, and the thing I remember most about that race. Vettel fully deserved his win and proved himself a capable pair of hands, given the right equipment and the right opportunities.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Sorry to drag this back on topic from 2008

Regardless of where I stand on Fernando's comments, some people* moan that drivers are mindless corporate drones that only speak in team/company soundbites and when one gives his opinion after a direct question it gets dissected to the nth degree by the very same people* - Makes me chuckle some times.

*none of you obviously

Those two things are not at odds with each other.. Some of us want drivers to be open like this so that we can dissect them. It makes sense that your "some people" are also your "same people".

 

[Slyboogy]

Alonso's been having a go at Vettel for the past few seasons, not surprised by this.

(well not having a go, but undermining him compared to the other champions).

Also, to say that the driver that equalled him in the same car is better than Vettel is quite smart.

 

[Brogan]

Also, to say that the driver that equalled him

Not to be a pedant but Hamilton beat Alonso; Hamilton came 2nd in the WDC, Alonso 3rd.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Well, I am a pedant and you have to equal someone before you can beat them.

 

[snowy]

At the risk of upsetting everyone.

We mustn't forget that Jenson Button has been using the same machinery as Lewis for the past two seasons and won numerous GPs. He also beat Lewis in the WDC last season by quite some margin. I'd say Jenson Button is the best driver in F1 by quite some margin.

END OF DEBATE

 

[Brogan]

It was 1 all last time I checked.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It could also be argued that Lewis beat himself last year and that if he hadn't, then neither would Jenson have.

 

[Viscount]

At the risk of upsetting everyone.

We mustn't forget that Jenson Button has been using the same machinery as Lewis for the past two seasons and won numerous GPs. He also beat Lewis in the WDC last season by quite some margin. I'd say Jenson Button is the best driver in F1 by quite some margin.

END OF DEBATE

No question Button performed better than Hamilton in 2011, but when both drivers are driving at their best do you honestly believe that Button is better than Hamilton?

 

[Bill Boddy]

Well, well. It's turned into the Hamilton thread. What a surprise.

 

[no-FIAt-please]

Let's forget about Button and Hamilton comparisons

I acknowledge that at Italy 2008 the Toro Rosso was not the best car. However I feel too much went Vettel's way that weekend for it to be counted as him beating out the competition in an inferior car. The only driver that could realistically challenge Vettel was Kovalainen. Look at Singapore 2010 when Alonso had Vettel breathing down his neck or Germany 2011 when Hamilton had to battle for the lead with 2 other cars. When Vettel wins in an inferior car against drivers of the highest calibre then that to me counts as winning in an inferior car, there's no point in counting a win in which the roll of the dice goes your way, it's the skill of beating the best drivers in better cars. That's what makes it so hard to do and probably why Alonso holds the feat in such high regard.

Although I will acknowledge that Vettel may have displayed this quality before because he has spent much of his F1 career in the class of the field, therefore he has had less opportunity to demonstrate so.

 

[Bill Boddy]

Somehow what I wrote finished up in the wrong thread. I am now correcting this. Sorry to anyone who saw it.

 

[Kewee]

Kewee
It is a long-acknowledged fact of Formula 1 that rain is the great equalizer, allowing the driver to out-perform his car in ways that cannnot be accomplished in more clement conditions. Vettell massively outperformed his car that weekend.

In 2008, TR was only 6th in the WCC, meaning that 10 drivers on the grid had better cars than Vettel did (yes, TR even finshed behind such powerhouses as Sauber and Toyota). To my knowledge, no other driver on the grid today ever scored a win in the 6th-best car. Plus the conditions were the same for all, and the attrition of the front runners wasn't high. Alonso, Hamilton and Kubica were all in it at the finish. Give the man his due.

Which is why I said he drove a brilliant race. I'm still looking forward to seeing him in good conditions, without a car advantage, having to battle with Alonso and Hamilton.